Deckard Cain - Future Balance ideas

As no surprise from my name, I’m someone who plays a lot of Deckard Cain. He’s one of my favorite characters, however I do find his style… more tedious than it probably need be.

I was planning on posting this balance change before the recent patch, but I didn’t make it; in the latest patch he was given some health boost and cd reduction on Lorenado and some minor quest reduction… cool, sure.
HOWEVER, that’s not at all what Cain really needs IMO.

There’s 2 main issues with Cain:
1) He’s way too spammy, and low damage
2) He’s really narrow in build order, as all the Activated gem builds are complete trash

As far as addressing claim (1), it’s a fact that Cain can drain through his mana faster than I can slam a can of Mountain Dew… and that’s pretty damn fast. The problem is is Horadric Scroll & Seal take up quite a lot of energy and they deal practically no damage, I mean 80 damage and 150 damage is abysmal, especially when they’re skill shots (especially Scroll of Sealing, not easy to hit smart opponents unless big fights). Now obviously your goal is more focused on the slow and stun, but the duration is so quick that most of the time its a minor inconvenience and wears off in 1 sec and then you have to sit and wait to cast again. This is partly why I think it’s pretty much impossible to get good results and not pick Field Study and Cube mastery talents and lvl 1 and lvl 7.

How to fix this?
Deckard needs his Seals and Cube abilities to do like double the damage, so they make much more of an impact, and increase the stun/slow durations by like 0.5 seconds. In return, increase the mana cost and cooldown cost of it. Right now its just too spammy and doesn’t have a dramatic enough effect, so increase the cd of them by like 6-7 seconds but boost their effects.


As far as Claim (2), to put it bluntly the Activated “Gem Traits” are just absolute garbage, please never pick them. They’re “conditional” upon casting Cube AND hitting a hero, AND for example with Ruby you have no control of the placement of these “lesser healing pots”, and on top of that they disappear. Stupid. The Emerald and Saphire are just garbage too… woopty doo, slightly more slow (for the sacrifice of 20% spell power btw! from lvl1) and the Emeralds healing reduction and damage is super fringe, and passing on either Cube traits would be insane since they’re 100 times better!

How to fix them?
I DO like the idea of having Actives though… I do, it’s just that these ones are garbage and do so little, off the top I can think of MANY more creative and useful ideas than simply amplifying the SAME stuff he already has.
For example here’s a few “Actives” you could try out as Traits:

Active Idea 1: “Telekinesis” (30 sec cooldown)
Skillshot: ‘Cain can activate this ability to cast an instant telekinetic wave of force that pushes enemy 3 yards in ANY direction (directed similar to “molten boulder” maybe?)’
I like this 'cause it seems to fit the lore with the “scroll of identify”, and for the oldschool Diablo players, the “scroll of telekinesis” back in day.

Active Idea 2: “Burning Staff” (cooldown 45 sec)
‘Cain enchants his staff with a burning fire for 8 seconds, any enemies hit take 100 damage, then explode for 200 damage. Enemies hit by explosion spread.’
(Idea was like a slightly weaker melee “Living Bomb” from Kael… just one idea, but I’d be open to others)

Active Idea 3: “Mana Potion” (cooldown 60 sec)
Cain can not use mana potion. Using mana pot causes Q to go on cooldown, too.
‘Cain drops mana potion to replenish 150 mana for allies.’
I like this idea for one because… why are there no mana potions? It seems such an obvious gap, and much needed benefit to team.

Active Idea 4: “Town Portal” (cooldown 120 seconds)
‘Cain opens a portal that after 0.5 second channel, allows allies back to base. Duration 4 seconds.’
I like this 'cause it just feels perfect for Lore of Cain, with scroll of TP. I was thinking this could be like a lvl 20 or lvl 16 trait maybe. It’s kind of a similar twist to a Medivac drop for Morales…


I think any of those ideas, all or any combination of something like that is FAR BETTER than the Gem Activations he has now, and they’d be FAR more fun too! He should have all these fun actives with creative abilities like this that people could enjoy using… but he doesn’t, at least yet. If Blizzard is listening and cares, I implore you to at least browse over this and take some inspiration. Cain’s one of my all time fav Blizzard characters, and I’m 35 and been playing this crap since Diablo 1, Hellfire, D2, and D3, it saddens me how one-dimensional and spammy Cain is, we can do so much better with this old geezer!

Thanks for staying a while and Listening,
Prophet

You dont like a 75% antiheal for 4s, a slow so you know your root lands or ruby which is overpowered atm?

Sorry to ask but do you really play him a lot? Many things that mid and high level players find overpowered you find “garbage”

Hitting on a hero is really easy. The square is big

5 Likes

With ruby every cube has extra damage and Stone sealing at 16 is pickable and does damage.

Deckard is intended to be more mana intense early game and be more powerful late game.
The devs said it if memory serve

3 Likes

His sleep ult is really strong so I hope he does low damage

Prophet ↔ Deckard… ??? O.o

Maybe use Sapphire?..

The only “bad” gem was Ruby but it got overbuffed.

Also it’s not your job as Deckard to deal dmg. He has strong CC, strong heals, hard to kill. Giving him more dmg would be overkill and against his fragile Hero fantasy.

If you want an elderly with dmg, play Uther.

4 Likes

What?? Humiliating people with a staff kill is his sacred mission!!!

3 Likes

TIL Deckard deals no damage!

Doesnt armor reduction works weird with those dummys?

No idea.

Getting such Stone scrolls without saphire is a bit unrealistic though.

Ruby, emerald or sapphire, all of them increase W damage in 100%, so it doesn’t really matter. You can go sapphire :smiley:

1 Like

Anyway we both agree that with ruby deckard gains additionnal damage and waveclear.
Hope he gets an OW pass and keep it like this.

2 Likes

Ruby needs a nerf for sure. Actually, I think 10 seconds cd is ok, but the healing amount is the problem. Currently, Lesser Healing Potions heals for 250, while standard Healing Potion (his Q) heals for 270. Basically Ruby spawns free 3 Qs for each hero hit…

I think cd should stay, but the healing should be nerfed to 180 - 200 at max.

I think they just should’ve made the potions bigger tbh. People still think they don’t heal anything because they are very small.

5 Likes

Well that’s because his trait.
If you don’t want him to spam you can just avoid your teammates /s

It’s not Decard’s job to deal dmg. His jobs are:

  • healing/buffing his team
  • zoning and AoE CC

If you want Decard to deal more dmg, you can take nessesary talents for that:

  • minus armor from E at 1 lvl
  • spell power from E at 1 lvl
  • 100% more dmg from Cube after using ANY Gem (1, 4, 7 lvl)
  • CDR at 7 for more E
  • 200% dmg from E at 16 if you hit 2+ people
  • CDR of cube and gems at 20 lvl

Decard’s talent tree is one of the most flexiable (like Blaze’s) and has a lot of ways to use.

Sigh.

Each gem is good and isn’t trash at all. My game experience showed that it’s not a good idea to pick all 3 gems, but if you pick 1-2 - it’s good.

Those abilities could work with Decard.

Tbh, after reading main post it’s hard to believe you play Decard a lot.

4 Likes

I’m fine with an AoE root not dealing much damage. Since it gets you killed y’know?

2 Likes

Also semi blind people already miss the big and ultra big ones so it would not hurt.

1 Like

Giving him a town portal that everyone could click on to instantly go back to the hall of storms would be cool. Could be a level 20 talent.

2 Likes

I would also like his potions talents to change their color.

1 Like

While those are interesting ideas you risk having a stat stick piano hero that would either be super broken with 1% of competent players or be totally useless/nerfed to oblivion with no gameplay else than putting things on the ground and not count as a proper and engaging hero that no one would play.

The devs have already tested support only super heavy concept and they failed.

Also note that a simple support hero like tassadar got deleted from the game and we still have people thinking tyrael is a bad hero in 2020 and should follow his footsteps.

I am not saying giving something like you mentionned is out of question, but there are going to be limits on what he would have. He is quite loaded already.