Its hilarious to me to see deathwing players here defending this hero as “balanced.” ALL the stats point to him being too powerful, even post nerfs. Heroesprofile isnt 100% accurate, but its a pretty decent stats source despite not being quite as good as hotslogs was. 99% popularity is especially funny.
In addition to the stats, we also have plenty of high level players claiming he is S tier/OP, and a vast number of complaints from players saying he’s too strong on the forums and on reddit.
All these things put together paint a clear picture, and the evidence is overwhelming. Time to accept the truth. Deathwing will be nerfed by the developers in the next patch, and that nerf will be entirely justified.
I question this sites viability since Deathwing is at over 100% popularity in all tiers but diamond and bronze. Some of them aren’t even close, silver is at 165% and gold is at 153%.
Possibly because of games with players from multiple ranks?
Sometimes anomalies like this occur when trying to filter data. I don’t think it’s fair to discredit the entire site because of one confusing piece of data however. The winrates and overall stats seem fairly in line with what I would expect to see. Things only get strange if you filter by individual ranks, which seems to me like a problem with the filters, not the data itself
He just has a couple of problematic talents, I cant imagine playing DW without heatwave, but also some weak/unecessary ones. And having such a short cd on global is way more impactful in high level plays because of proper macro play which those players ‘defending’ him might not realize.
Screw deathwing and his pos unstoppable. Ruined HotS more than Qhira’s dumbass did. This game is dead, dying and sucks with the way Blizzard are moving foward. Sad to see, cause I quite enjoyed it for a long time.
nerfing the hero won’t change much if players just stand in the fire, don’t adjust their play, talent picks, etc. The insistence and demand for nerfs tend to project that nerfs will then ‘fix’ the issues that exasperate them while neglecting that said patch may be very small. as such, people who ‘defend’ the hero tend to offer suggestions on how to cope with dw in ways some people don’t consider or do.
Perspective influences perception, so people that rely on the crutch of “oh he’s OP” will probably continue to find him problematic should said nerf come because they conclude the problem isn’t something in their control, when it very well could be.
See this would be good advice if there was another good alternative site.
But we both know that most people who don’t use statistics sites are going to use their feelings on what is good or bad and their sources will be “just trust me dude” and heroesprofile is unfortunately way more reliable than any “just trust me dude”
I appreciate your optimist mentality, but at what point does that logic and reasoning swing the other way? Maybe a hero is genuinely OP or maybe it actually is a l2p issue, if that’s the case, when do you know if its one or the other? At the risk of sounding like presenting a false dilemma, I do acknowledge it could be a little of both.
You are skpetical of people claiming “OP” as just a symptom of their play and gameknowledge being lackluster, which, to be fair, is justified and true in some (or most) cases. However, my skepticism actually does swing the other way. My skepticism is with people claiming any legitimate game problem is just “l2p” without ever admitting something needs tuning.
Go back to any overtuned hero release (Ming, Kael, Garrosh, etc) and just about every complaint thread regarding them was met with harsh criticism and loud roars of “l2p” or “bronze trash” even though Blizzard themselves eventually acknowledged they were overtuned.
“Just dodge ming’s skillshots”
“Just spread for living bomb”
“Just don’t be in melee range of Garrosh”
Advice like this or “Just don’t stand in the fire” just seems like blatant oversimplification of the issue, especially when most of the problems with the aforementioned heroes have to do with the strength of their talent synergies, not necessarily their base kits.
If you operate under the assumption that everything is “l2p”, when are tuning changes ever justified?
Again, I acknowledge it could be a little bit of [insert hero] being OP, and simultaneously people refusing to learn how to play, opting to whine instead. In my personal opinion, I believe several of Deathwing’s talents are incredibly overtuned, namely heatwave, and I also believe people are struggling to learn to play against him because he’s just that unique and we’ve never seen his likes in the nexus before.
And for the record, nerfs actually do tend to “fix” heroes more often than not. Malthael, Ragnaros, Genji, Tracer, Kel, and Probius, are all examples of heroes considered broken or overtuned at release who are now in much healthier situations. When was the last time you saw a complaint thread for any of these heroes? Draw whatever reason or conclusion you like to explain this change but in my mind, they would have never gotten to their healthy spots without tuning on Blizzard’s end.
To me, Deathwing’s biggest issue is the combination of how hard he is to kill with how punishing he is if not killed. The fact that he can dip out of a fight and globally reappear with full health every 45 seconds makes it a bit too much.
Controversial opinion, but I think Dragonflight’s channel should be interrupted by damage. This makes it a lot harder for him to get away in certain situations.
if people are calling DW overpowered because they “stand in the fire” fenix and hanzo would be op for “standing in the giant ult”
If people honestly think people are calling him OP for “standing in the fire” yall are very wrong, i guess fenix laser is op then, thanks for the advice guys
One of the biggest tells is the difference between specific concern vs generic complaint. Offering specifics justifies the tuning as part of the process.
e.g.
yea, in some of the old Ess topics some replies have “just dodge the slow moving orb” but other topics bring the shebang of narrowing down a concern to something specific, explaining why its problematic, and then offering a suggestion to offset the concern.
For Ess, it wasn’t uncommon to see suggestions to move it to later tiers, or rather, they were particular to point out that Ess enabled the whole combo, and thus undermined a design point of Li-ming because of the combination with her trait. Similarly, there were topics that plugged numbers, and point out buildings can’t dodge her skill shots. So the concerns weren’t just “She’s OP, deal with it”, but rather demonstrated concerns of opportunity cost particular to balance.
There are topics that post “Waaah dw is as bad as garrosh” or “boo hoo, dw ensures your side wins” and there are ones that point out “hey deathwing’s meteors stall objectives too well on x-maps, here’s an idea to adjust this.”
Complaining is mindless & people will do it on reflex, esp when conditioned to expect rewards for their complaints. However, if someone puts in the extra effort to get more specifics, then it helps convey concerns & perception instead of complaints of impulsive impression. Some people care about the game, some only care about themselves. Should their concern only be their own, then they may have to learn to cope instead of expecting the world to revolve around them.
There’s a ‘medium is the message’ to it, how someone complains or how they offer constructive criticism can denote the extent of a concern, and if it could be a localized concern before it is ‘universal’ zomgbbqhowdarethey problem.
That’s not how this works. It falls on you to provide evidence when you are trying to put forth a claim of truth. If I were to say that all of the deer in Washington died yesterday it would be on me to prove it instead of just saying “go look it up if you don’t believe me”.
