Class logic error

General Discussion
1

Hots contains a fundamental flaw in the hero class logic, so in a particular game the probability of winning can be around 10% if you just get unlucky and the game thinks it’s okay and keeps doing it.

Zul and Gaz are not bruisers. They are not equal to any bruiser in the game, they can’t take damage and die with 1 poke. If Zul can still hold on (not for long), then Gaz - no. They are the most common melee killers (which, according to the geniuses dev in the whole game only 10, out of 89 heroes lol).

What happens: the game puts Gaz and Imperius, Irel, Artanis, Leorick, Dehak etc in 1 rink. And then you lose. Obviously, no real bruiser is equal to these 2 - they just don’t belong to this class, they don’t have the skills to hold damage, not even medium ones (except for Zul’s 1, but that’s a laugh). They are former pushers, who for some reason were put in the bruiser class, thus breaking the random system.

It is obvious to everyone that the devs have always made the worst decisions possible, even when it seemed - well, how much worse? But they were very talented at it. Specifically what I described - even a child understands. But not the blue-haired Hots devs of course.

Let them fix their handiwork on their knees for the Chinese market not out of beta test or karma will catch up with them! :skull:

1 Like
2

They are bruisers lol. But you’re supposed to change your playstyle accordingly. You will die quickly with any tank if you go face in on any enemy without thinking. Learn to play these heroes, and more importantly learn to draft in ranked

3

The heroes you’re complaining about aren’t actually matched as “bruisers”. Xul, Thrall, Rag, etc etc aren’t treated as “bruisers” for QM matching rules. The ‘label change’ from whenever ago was superficial. However, I doubt you actually bothered to read any of the topics that point out QM’s priorities.

Would you like me to link the actual QM matching rules, or would you just like to keep complaining about something for the next 7 years?

4

Xul gets matched as a melee assassin by the QM matchmaker, despite being labeled a bruiser. The same goes for Ragnaros, Thrall, and Malthael. However, Gazlowe does get matched as a bruiser, which has definitely made a bunch of my QM games not fun because the team fights are so lopsided. I would cast my vote on for treating Gazlowe like as an assassin in QM.

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5

I take it as a QM topic. There’s lots of rock-scissors-paper situations even between heroes in a single class, I’d say remaking the classes without giving each hero a score when matched with/against any comp won’t do much.

Meta-centrism is IMO the bigger issue. There’s just very little reason to pick half the roster unless you’re doing some sort of challenge/ play in a premade. Happiest gazlowe scenario is being allowed to constantly poke enemy team without your mates dying, waiting for lvl 10 and a lucky ult.
Meanwhile imperius and dehaka are useful from lvl 1. Then you add yrel and chen with huge disruption capabilities at 10, depending minimally on enemy team clumping to get bodied.

6

I think sometimes there is also a play-style clash that happens. For example, I like to play Gazlowe a certain way, but I have been put against heroes that perfectly counter my efforts. So, the match might have been more fair if I had played different.

7

Ur info is wrong as always, cause you haven’t played the game for a long time.

If you played at least the qm you mentioned, you would have seen that the game calmly puts Gaz and Imperius against each other, considering them as bruisers

8

Gaz should be treated as melee assassin at least for QM. I do agree he doesn’t hold his ground vs Imperius or Sonya nor is hit kit capable of being a semi-tank.

Such a matchup generally sucks for the Gaz team if he is the only frontline.

2 Likes
9

QM issue. You might aswell then complan about the 20 other heroes that are in a disadvantage if they face thier counterpart. When you start drafting a team with a proper setup then you wont see those issues.

10

[Edit note: I was incorrect in a quote response to Dreyda, so I removed the erroneous section that was here.]

It isn’t, but ‘absolutes’ tend to be wrong. I’m not the only one pointing out that some heroes are mislabeled for QM matching (Dreyda also posted the melee assassin label for select ‘bruisers’) nor are you correct in the assumption that I don’t play the game. There’s ways to check this stuff out dude. The internet is a resource for information, not for reveling in ignorance.

I offered to post links: there’s reddit, blue posts, wikis that cite broken links to former blog/blue posts (since the forum updated their url) but all of that doesn’t matter to you because it’s easier to just say someone is “wrong”.

As Wild posted, Gaz has it harder in that he’s very talent reliant to fill a role, that as ForSerious wrote, doesn’t necessarily align with how people would want to play Gaz. It’s harder, and unintuitive compared to other heroes, especially if people played pre-rework gazlowe and expected to poke with lazer from much further back, or set up bigger turret traps.

It’s not just an issue for QM either; ARAM has it’s matching options updated, so the role-mirroring for oddballs heroes like Xul or Gazlowe matters when people spend a moment to consider their choices compared to what they expect the other side to have.

11

I’m not sure where you’re getting that information, but it’s either out dated or wrong. They are simply treated as melee assassins. They do not have their own sub-category.

In fact, I just had a QM game today where my team had Xul and the enemy team got Abathur, Greymane, Rehgar, Sgt. Hammer, and Sylvanas:

https://imgur.com/UYuGYst

1 Like
12

Yea, was checking my old post history, and I goofed here. I’ve gotten so used to topics asserting that when xul, thrall, etc etc where matched together, it was from the bruiser rule that I was making an incorrect modus tollens here.

To reiterate, they do have a ‘rule’, but it is that they’re matched as melee assassins, and aren’t obligated to be matched against each other.

13

More likely because enemy team had Greymane then you were matched against him.

I just checked my own profile and it also shows many games with me as Xul where i am fighting teams with no sub bruisers on it. They then instead get a melee dps matched against me instead. If they dont have a sub bruiser on the team like Thrall/Rag then you get matched against melee dps.

Teams with only a tank vs teams who have both a tank and a real bruiser on the team are more annoying to face.

14

Are you guys even sure that it matters if they are classified as melee assassins vs bruisers? I thought classes in matchmaking only matter for tanks, healers, and maybe supports. I’m not sure that you’re right thinking that when one team gets a bruiser, the other team also will have to have a bruiser.

15

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/7q20g6/comment/dslyyys/

This was the case until this week. With the Blaze patch, we reclassified several heroes. Xul and Alarak were moved out of the Bruiser class, into Siege and Burst Damage, respectively. Several of the normal off-tank heroes in the current meta, like Artanis, were moved from Tank to Bruiser.

Tanks are required to “mirror,” and Bruisers will mirror if there are no tanks.

Direct blizzard links to Qm matching rules have been broken over the years, but reddit and some wikis have kept track of the ‘known’ rules specified by blues on blogs, patchnotes, or reddit.

It ‘matters’ because a ‘typical’ player wants standard compositions, and expects any and everyone else to fill the game for them. However, about ‘half’ of the demanded available qm populace plays as solo tank, so there’s not enough players to fill tanks, and healers, and whatever else people complain about that they think should be the case. So having a ‘bruiser rule’ helps pad a frontline/sustain limitation due to a lack of players in QM filling ‘needed roles’.

Many ‘bruisers’ have escape/engage tools, some self sustain, and damage mitigation that melee assassins do not have. So in heavy-dps teams (like 3-4 assassins) a melee hero is severely handicapped with all the cc, poke, and kiting tools they have to face without a tank to screen the damage, or a healer, or some other form of initiation for them to follow-up on.

Or, conversely, if a player actually knows how to play some of the melee assassins, then they can seem ‘unstoppable’ without enough ‘peel’ to protect all those fragile ranged heroes.

16

I think the timer on one of gazlowe’s bombs should be random and so should the damage because he’s a mechanic or technologist and sometimes it doesn’t go right.

17

Gaz strong bruiser, more so than before he was reworked
You probly just need a few hundred games with him to understand, no biggie

18

Can you name all 89 heroes? There are actually some characters in the game which could be heroes and villains so I think Heroes of the Storm is the wrong name for the game.

D-va - Hero, she just destroys robots which maybe malfunctioning and doing bad things because they’re broken or created wrong.

Genji could be a villain because he fights his brother and has shurricans.

Ana - She should just be a hero because she puts us to sleep when it’s bedtime.

Garrosh is a really evil villain.

NOVA is a hero.

Anub just wants to be left alone in his home, not sure if he’s a villain or hero.

Johanna, hero, she just wants to read and find the point to life.

Mei is a hero, she just discovers science.

Muradin - Hero, he has a hammer and just wants to get to work.