But it hardly is. That’s just part of the character. Oh and you have counterplay to remove that armor too.
What next? Having essentially everlasting shields that is trivially easy to obtain is bad design too?
Weak argument.
Garrosh pulling people with Q was also “part of the character”. Just watch the video:
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But -why- is it bad design to have an armoured hero?
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It’s not. It’s about how easy the armor is to get. Melke already agreed with me that armor is better than health in every situation. I would expect a hero with a lot of armor to have some kind of difficult setup to get such a high value that lasts for so long.
Melke inadvertently ended up proving my point with the Qhira example. Qhira can theoretically maintain 30 armor permanently but she does so by attacking heroes with basic attacks (I.E. putting herself in danger). This is acceptable to me because she has to work for it and put herself in harms way to maintain it.
Having a character that just walks around and is resistant to everything (a range hero no less) is a problem to me. And yes, that is my opinion.
Ye and then Garrosh Q got nerfed cause it was a very cheap spell with no drawback.
Yes I agreed with you that armour is better then health, However something being better then regular health does not inherintly make it bad Design hence why I asked you to prove it’s OP, because that’s the ONLY reason I can think of that this is bad inherently beyond personal opinion.
Two posts above yours. You almost got it.
So you have an issue with it being easy to acquire even though it’s been established her health pool is balanced around this mechanic hence why she’s lower then other melee assassins and has inherintly worse sulf sustain and no escape tool?
Just a straight up lie. Out of the ten melee assassins in the game, Zeratul, Kerrigan, Gazlowe, Maiev, Murky, Valeera, and Samuro have nearly zero ability to restore their own health except for deep in their talent trees.
Cassia has an entire talent tier of health restore options at 4 for various situations.
And since you agreed with me that armor is more valuable than health, you would also agree that Cassia’s 1700 health with 30 armor is more valuable than Alaraks 1900 health, Maeiv’s 2000 health, and Valeera’s 2000 health, right?
Lets go through that list shall we
Zeratul: Escape that is without restriction teleport baseline and god forbid you find out about the teleports he gets later. Versus Cassia having zero escape except under a few occasions you can Fend on a target that isn’t in the fight
Kerrigan: isn’t her shield talent really early on, letting her build up armour based on her really good spell damage?
Gazlow, Functions like a mage more like, it’s not hard for him to not go balls deep into a fight if it’s not safe he’s about area control via turrets and his stun
Maiev: Has access to immunity to dodge stuff and once again nice mobility tool
Murky: Murky is Murky and a slippery little bugger, also a late game hero
Valeera: CC and AGAIN escape I gotta go over this word a lot when going thorugh your list ESCAPE ESCAPE ESCAPE
Samuro: Dear god do I even need to with this one, the cooldown on clones (which cleanses him) and all sorts of other shenadagins that make him neigh impossible to pin down in the right hands.
Okay so you got me she has a tiny bit more sustain then a few of them, but once you factor in escape that becomes a relevant point.
I would agree if Cassia can avoid getting CC and keep the armour up she has more raw survivability then her counterparts yes
But now you seem to be trying to tell me that the amrour is OP again to which you have no evidence, as I can counter everything you just tried to say by remding you she has ZERO escape, zero unstoppable zero dashes or teleports in her kit anywhere, nothing can pull her out of dodge and avoid taking the hits in a pinch like 3/4 of every hero you just mentioned has
Let me give you another example of what I mean here
Azmodan has 2400 health despite being a rnaged assassin, his counterparts in the mage category include heroes like Li Ming and Jaina who have 1400 ish or so
Yet despite this azmo isn’t considered to be twice as hard to kill because unlike Jaina who has CC on everything and Ming who has her teleport Azmo has no way out of just getting pinned down, pin him down that helath melts like no one business. And even if you don’t outright remove the armour from Cassia the same applies
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I still don’t get Orange, at all. Basically his argument has something to it but the way he argues doesn’t connect to the rest of his posts, at all.
So armor adds effective health to the character. Good? Did we learn something new with this? Did this suppose to have some kind of point? There’s no proper rhyme to this argument since the point what he may have tried to get across is already lost.
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Armour is more effective then health and as a result he thinks it’s bad that someone can get armour for no reason and doing so is bad design
What he’s failing to grasp is that Cassia is balanced around the armour thus herh ealth is lower so if she gets pinne down she’s got nothing and she has no escape to go along with the survivability the armour gives her.
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Wow this thread blew up. Interesting!
Pmuch, Cassia was always about armor and moving. Some argue she was supposed to be the anti-AA DPS but that was gone since her first rework. Her current identity to be just a relatively tanky hybrid assassin under the right conditions.
I do think the devs should buff Cassia by focusing on her damage and anemic builds rather than her survivability. I am certain many would like to have the pre-rework Fend damage output and of course a semblance of a legit AA build would be very welcome.
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34 since the last buffs or altogether?
Which maps?
What compositions?
Also most of those other heroes have higher damage out puts then cassia does. Cassia’s baseline burst is 50 from blinding, 130(1.2) from aa, 165(1.2) from q, and about 34x4(1.2)=567.2
Alarak does 165 from q, 48 from w, and 62 from lighting =275x baseline sadism of 100 so 2=550 damage
Valeera 130 from ambush, 220(1.1) from 2 q, 85x3(1.1) = 652.5 damage.
Zeratul 200 from q, 240 from spike, and 2 X 126 from aa= 692 damage
Kerrigan 260 from q charges, 225 from e, and 165 from w=645 damage.
Gazlow is not much for burst early game, but his turrets do 62 each, and he can have up to 3 up easily, so 186 + max lazor 274+ xplodium 233=693 potential burst damage, though not likely as xplodium is hard to hit without set up.
Samuro is all about auto attacks, so again limited burst: 102 + 11x2= 124x1.5 from critical strike= 186 every 4 basic attacks.
Maiev is meant for more team fight scenarios and not single: 145 from aa, 152 from knifes and 150x2 from e=597 damage
Finally Murky, who does not burst till late game. 210 to an already slimed target, and 225 from puffer= 435 damage.
These are base kits, and most get higher damage outputs later on too.
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Since the rework with standard comps (Tank, Heal, Bruiser, Ranged, Flex) and every map in Storm League.
Good to know.
Quick check revealed she is close to 60% winrate?
Which build are you using?
I’m currently using this as my default build:
- 2, 1, 3, R2, 2, 2, R2
I’ll also use R1 ult and Rockstopper at 20 if it’s better vs the matchup, like vs a Zul Jin or Greymane so I can stick to them taking minimal damage and dishing out maximum output. I can duel almost any assassin or bruiser with this build.
Is that the fend build or the lightning build or something else?
Sorry I don’t remember numbers I’d need the nubmers or names