Although Dark Conversion is a lot of fun, Carrion Swarm feels like the better heroic to me. Maybe too good. Being able to pop an invulnerable status, walk right into the middle of their entire team, and heal to full health while damaging them, seems a bit much, rather like the original Tormented Souls. Has anyone else tried this out, and what are your opinions on it? It may need to have the self-healing reduced a bit to make it less of a full tank reset in every team fight.
1 Like
It’s Malthael release all over again.
I think this is an overreaction, why is the entire party clustering so he’s hitting everyone? That would be the most ideal of circumstances for him sitting in the entire group for the full duration. Let him pop it, retreat, regroup, reengage just like you would when Alex pops her dragon.
It’s only the better heroic/what I believe will be the standard go to because there’s just too much counterplay for the other one to shine outside of fun circumstances.
Also, it takes 1 second to go off, you can interrupt it in this time so there is counterplay to be had.
7 Likes
I am not saying there isn’t counterplay, and I am sure once people get used to him, they won’t give him as many opportunities to maximize its benefits, but my initial impression was, “Why would anyone ever take the other heroic? Other than for the funsies.” I was curious to see how other people felt about it as they get a chance to play with and against it.
Possibly part of the reason it felt overpowered is that I did have a Maiev on the team, and that combo on any sort of objective felt like it would be oppressive to face.
1 Like
Maiev is definitely one of the heroes that comes to my mind as being an amazing pair with Mal’ganis but I can say that for a lot of tanks with her. She’s just so good at being a playmaker lol.
I can respect the initial first impression opinion though, just giving my thoughts that I think it’s not that bad especially once people get used to seeing it and knowing when to interrupt and moving out if he gets it off.
I don’t think it’s too strong it is just that you had the “ideal” conditions going for you with Maiev helping to round up opponents and the people you’re playing against not being fully aware of the wind up animation and counterplay.
I think it’s easy enough to react against the ability, besides it’s not like Malganis has increased movement speed in that form so it’s easy enough to distance yourself from it once you’re aware.
1 Like
I’ve said it once and ill say it again.
It’s literally a better version of Anub’arak’s Locust Swarm heroic in EVERY WAY.
-Better damage
-Better healing
-Complete Immunity
-Lower Cd
-Bigger AoE
I mean seriously, how is no one noticing this completely obvious power creep?
9 Likes
Can’t interrupt Anub’s swarm and it lasts 6 seconds, not going to lie and say that locust swarm is viable because it most certainly isn’t. They need to go back and take a look into it, maybe even change it completely to compete with cocoon.
First of all, i am not sure about bigger AoE. I am not in game right now so i cant check Anubs range but i would say its at least the same if not bigger.
But even if Anubs AoE is smaller, you do realise that Anub is capeable of fighting completely unaffected with all his abilies and gets the heroic on top, while Mal’ganis replaces his kit with the heroic during the duration. Also Locust Swarm lasts alot longer.
5 Likes
It will absolutely be too strong on release and the reason it will be is because lifeleech designs are always feast or famine. It wont be as devastating as Malthael because Mal’ganis is a warrior so he doesn’t have that level of damage but looking at how his kit functions it appears to be a Yrel level leech (possibly slightly weaker) with better durability (baseline armor) and more damage output.
Another way we can look at Mal’ganis heroics is that they function almost identical to Muradin’s.
Avatar=Carrion Swarm, instant cast traded for invulnerability.
Haymaker=Dark Conversion, suboptimal as solo tank, will see play in double warrior setups. Has a high risk high reward that will make it less reliable and not part of the “default” build.
Simillarly to how people overreacted to Malthael’s Last Rites before release, saying it was bs you could “oneshot” someone. Dark Conversion has the same “oh damn” factor but seems very impractical.
So if we assume Mal’ganis will be able to fill the maintank role (which I believe personally) I think he will be played in the same manner as Muradin, but with higher potential reward traded for “a delay into AoE” type of effect. Carrion Swarm and his Sleep effect (forgot the name) is very simillar to how Storm Bolt and Avatar works.
1 Like
Either way, both heroics need significant nerfs. Carrion swarm is basically a mobile ice block with dmg and regen. The last two heroes (mephisto and malganis) have stupidly OP heroic abilities ![:frowning:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
Neither of them need a nerf…only one of them is even viable, dark conversion is a “for fun” ult that can get countered into the ground in so many ways.
This is the kind of stuff that triggers me, no thought put in to it just “nerf this I don’t like it!” on day 1.
2 Likes
I think Carrion Swarm is a little bit overrated right now. Yes, it is a good selfheal and yes it makes him invulnerable, but it really doesnt do much dmg. People talk like Mal’ganis will just harvest through enemies and decimate them. Diablos Fire Breath for example does almost double the dmg of Carrion Swarm.
Even a very low HP hero like Valla can just tank through Carrion Swarm dmg and lose only 30% health.
I also think that his general dmg output gets overestimated. His Q is weaker than his AAs (and its not because his AAs are crazy strong). His W also does pretty mediocre dmg. I mean, overall he does decent dmg for a warrior, but nothing crazy.
I also think this is very exeggarated. Yes, Dark Conversion can be interrupted, but that just means you cant charge into the enemy brainlessly and than use it as a get out of jail free card. Use it with caution and good positioning and it will be a decent heroic. Also it can be paired with allies who can protect the channel (like Uther, Medivh or any hero with cleanse).
I predict that most people will use it really bad (similar to Tazzdingo), but people using it wrong doesnt make it bad.
Overall i think Mal’ganis will be a good pick. But it is a wild exaggeration to claim he is obviously OP or UP.
This is a game where people barely group up for Alexstrasza’s healing, you REALLY think an AoE damage ult like Carrion Swarm is going to do much?
1 Like
You seem to think I’m only talking about the channel, he can get all the help he wants securing the channel it wont mean anything when he gets hit with Deckard emerald/Ana grenade/any other healing reduction in game and the hero he channeled on has literally anything in the form of stasis/protected from themselves or the team which completely negate the damage/stops it. Probably other things that just aren’t coming to mind too, I know if he tried it on a Mura avatar+trait talent at 16 should be easy enough to keep Mura up np.
Whitemane should have 0 issues saving the target, throw Uther in there and he negates it with one button on whoever gets hit. A well timed invuln frame on certain hero picks even. I agree that he’s one of the most balanced hero launches in a long time though.
The argument you are trying to make literally works for every ability that deals dmg. According to that logic every ability that deals dmg can be easily negated. What you suggest here may sound good in theory but it simply doesnt happen in reality. Also, if really the whole enemy team is holding their protection abilities just to wait if Mal’ganis may use his heroic, than you negated so much teamfighting potential by not using the ability that it is already worth it 
A tank doing 30% of someones health is a very respectable amount. Diablo’s Lightning Breath is also a very damage heavy ability by tank standards as I don’t think any tank can pick a higher damage ability than this, especially with Hellstorm.
It’s also not about Mal’ganis “decimating” people or not. I think he will be a good addition to the game yet I am convinced he will be overtuned on release because there’s no other way to sell a hero on their strengths.
I also think some parts of his kit will heavily catch players off-guard in the first few weeks.
Generally speaking tanks abilities do much less damage than their AA’s. Their AA’s are typically where all their damage comes from and is the greatest way to tell if you have a good or a great tank on your team. Any bit of damage adds up very quickly.
Also Mal’ganis Q seems to be designed simillar to Riven’s Q from LoL. Since he’s not live yet I’ve not gotten to try him (I don’t test on PTR) but if I assume it works the same way as Riven’s Q it will be no issue at all to Q>AA>Q>AA>Q>AA. This is a lot of damage from a single ability.
His damage will also add up because both his heroics are damage oriented and one of his level 7 talents is very simillar to Muradin’s Give 'em the Axe, arguably the highest DPS tank in the game.
I include heroics because a large reason Yrel failed to succeed as a maintank is that neither of her heroics protects her team nor does damage. The best counterplay to both is to ignore her which is never a good characteristic for a tank.
You add up a 3 hit Q that chains an AA on each use, an AoE in his W and an AoE in his Carrion Swarm and you’ve got really good damage from the tank position. A cheesy and well used Dark Conversion would annihilate a single foe.
1 Like
And I can easily just apply what you’ve just said to mine so if you’d like we could continue going in circles forever. I’m listing all that because they are counters, you add in everything else that you talked about and the list grows larger. Now look at Carrion Swarm, which heroic has the shorter list of counters and will be the most reliable?
I can make the same argument that the things you said to enable Mal’ganis have just as little chance of occurring as the things I mention. People hold CD’s all the time to counter things, take ETC mosh for example. Plus the things I stated are really basic so idk what you mean that they will never happen
Yrel was never a main tank though so she didn’t really fail. She was always a bruiser that some people kept trying to run as main tank for whatever reason.
She was intended to be a maintank which is the point of where she failed. Blizzard didn’t intentionally make her a bruiser but they don’t understand why the current maintanks actually succeed based on the AmA a month or so ago.
Either the ones who answered the AmA questions weren’t working on Mal’ganis or Mal’ganis will be a lucky release since he is also intended to be a maintank afaik.
While Yrel isn’t the point of the topic it was to highlight that Mal’ganis having damage-oriented heroics that also aid in his survivability is very important for his maintank role to succeed as the damage output of a tank directly translates to them being dangerous and threatening - something Yrel had none of.