Butcher has a problem. As a QM player, I know this bc he’s never fun to play against, no matter the composition; he has an engage with CC that makes him completely unstunnable. I’m not allowed to say he’s OP tho bc his trait makes him worthless in ranked/pro play where teams are coordinated enough to prevent him from stacking, which QM doesn’t get.
So, he’s broken in low level play and broken in high level.
He needs work. And I think I know what he needs.
Take his trait, move the part where you can complete the quest and put it on a level 1 talent, so that if you don’t pick that talent you never reach the point where you keep your meat when you die, and then give him talents in that tier that make him playable in a situation (like pro play) where the enemy team is so coordinated that you’d never be able to complete your quest. Like, a talent that gives him a speed boost and halves the duration of CC for the duration of his charge’s stun so he can effectively play as a backliner, providing CC & slows for his team before pulling back out of the fight.
That way, the part about his character that Blizzard likes (him being OP in low level play) is still there, but he won’t always be OP in low level play when players dont take that talent (even if it’s just ranked/pro players practicing the talents they have to take when they arent playing QM), and he’ll be able to see use in high level play bc all of his value isn’t tied up in his bonkers OP trait
PS if you tell me Butcher doesn’t have a problem and is good as he is I will call you a butcher main and know that that will be a harsher insult than “hanzo main”
I (Ex Main) main him, I play him well, mastered his talents, and I still will not pick him in this meta.
Unless it’s with people I know who can bust that comp.
Honestly, I would prefer if they just reworked whole quest mechanic.
Stacks boost your stats
Completing quest gives you reward
Dying removes stacks (and the boost) but you keep the reward
So, Butcher gets X damage every stack. Once quest is completed, he gets AA speed buff.
When he dies, he lose Y stacks(and damage).
When his quest his completed and he dies, he lose Y stacks, but keeps AA speed buff.
I love when ppl don’t do research and think they created something new which no one ever thought about before.
Butch had this kind of talent. At first, at lvl 7. Then at lvl 1. Then it got baked into his trait.
Because it was mandatory.
A lvl 1 CC reduction would be too strong imo for the Butch. Tho… you said for the duration of the Charge’s stun, which is 1 sec… every 15+ sec… so couldn’t compete with the stacking.
It’s ok to be wrong.
If you check this month with diamond+ SL, Butch has the highest winrate.
If you check it for QM, he’s second (with Rexxar first). https://www.hotslogs.com/Sitewide/HeroAndMapStatistics
Let him be niche, fulfilling his fantasy. And call me a Butcher main if you sleep better from that.
But he doesn’t need what you proposed. He’s a cool character, he only needs some talent tweaks.
Butcher counters: anyone with blind, anyone with a delayed CC, most Heroes with anti-heal, Heroes who have unstoppable or has cleanse, Heroes which gives allies armor.
If you are unlucky in QM and have zero counters, gank him every time you can so he loses meat.
I’m a QM player too and I saw him lose countless times with finished quest.
Butcher is a Terrible hero and should basically never be picked, the only "good " time to pick him is when you go Full AA dive with Bloodlust Reghar but even then there are still heroes better than him.
He is counter By basically half the heroes in the game.
He is a Melee Auto Attack hero. (which is bad)
His only form of self sustian can easily be countered by slowing him or walking away from him.
People need to understand that even after he gets his quest done he is still easily countered. a cocoon or gorge on him at 500 meat will still shut him down and make him lose.
And on top of being a melee AA hero he has no escape at all.
Butcher is a terrible hero, and i’ve always advised 2 mains buffs for him.
Make insatiable Blade baseline (Move speed increased while facing branded target by 25%)
Make hamstring no longer fade from the slow baseline, but maybe reduced the slow to compensate to like 20-25%
Why pick a dive hero like butcher when you can have someone with mobility or defensive capability’s like Genji or tracer?
I bet if I look it up he also has the lowest pickrate which means his winrate is a statistical aberration of a low playercount and being only picked in the exact comps that can’t do anything about him
Like illidan is pretty trash, and I played the #1 illidan player that made me ban him because he knows when to pick the hero. You can’t say you’re good at a hero if you do not want to pick him in a draft.
Shout Out to the mains who have heroes who are not meta, but know when to pick them in the draft.
I think the worst part about you being so wrong about how to read statistics is that you’re so smug about it. Heroes with high winrates and low pickrates are a product of self-selection biasing the results of the winrates and quoting the winrates without contextualizing them against the pickrates makes you sound like a fool.
The worst thing that you don’t follow your own points and arguments but only if it suits you.
We should change Butch because he is terrible at high leagues?
He’s not.
Because he’s overpowered at low leagues?
He’s not (check winrate at gold/silver and below, be it ranked or QM).
But he has low popularity so we should change him!
Why him and not others who have lower popularity?
And do you truly think that all the 86 Heroes should have at least 10-15% of popularity?
I saw a master one trick pony Butcher with positive winrate.
He’s not terrible. He’s not really a noobstomper.
So we should change him because… you lost to him a couple of times?
And you didn’t even bothered to address that I told you your idea for the trait being a talent was the original situation which got changed because it was a bad move.
You claim he has problems but those problems got disproven. And you bring “solutions” which proven to be bad ideas.
“But he has the 15th lowest popularity and I lose against him in QM!”
Butcher’s problem like many other heroes is his versatility. He’s way too situational. Only good against teams that have no escape mechanism or hard CC, and it is rare to have those teams. He’s also good on 1v1 and generally bad on team fights.
His builds could use more versatility. Especially Q build. They can buff this build at the expense of maybe meat stacks and turn Butcher into a ranged/semiranged hero if the enemy team is too stacked on CC.
Give him options to talent the Q build better, and give it more range and damage while making his meat stacks harder to get if he choses that build.
Also give his E a silence on impact, but raise its CD by 2 seconds.
![:smiley:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
