If I have all nessesary tools, I won’t die. I can die if I don’t have them.
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yea tools help to avoid getting killed, but u cant say “i will never make a mistakes” and if u make one a good butcher will kill you (im not saying im a good butch, im an average one), as i said, even Grand Masters can make mistakes (voluntarily or involuntarily)
When you will find me on Tassadar, who fails vs Butcher, we will talk.
And I didn’t literally said
Tbh I didn’t see someone used ult before charge before, so you are something higher than average. Average Butcher mostly goes in and dies.
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Let me tell ya something about me before i get my point across
i am a level 137 Butcher player (barely played him in ranked) and a low masters player (got down to less than 1000 points)
I can tell you that the reason i dont play him in ranked is how incredible easy it is to counter him, he is a 1 trick hero of e,w,q and you just have to hope that the enemy has no form of CC to stop you or else you are worthless.
Butcher ( in a ranked setting) is one of the worst heroes and needs a team built around him to be efficient at high levels of play. if the enemy team has any form of intelligence they will know how to stop a Butcher.
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Funnily enough, I once had a match in which Butcher was picked as a counterpick to the enemies’ Illidan. They build around Illi and made that clear early on, so having a point&click stun+engage was among the best thing possible.
We destroyed them, what a great match.
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Butcher is hard to get going if the enemy team has any idea to focus him down when he rushes.
Now, if you want to talk about how Abathur is beyond broken, that is indisputable. Abathur has been ruining every game mode for years.
thanks for bringing this up because i forgot to mention this as one of butchers greatest strengths, he is pretty good vs dive since the point in click stun is so good for making dive waste their mobility, you don’t know how scarred Genji’s and tracers are to go in during teamfights, because i as butcher still have charge
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I didn’t even read this, but I wanted to bump it cause butcher.
you bumped a thread because of butcher? do you also eat pineapple on pizza?
Heck Heisenberg wouldn’t even dare do what you did and he LOVES Butcher
This is upsetting
I play Zag enough to know that your solution isn’t a solution. Maw is on like a 100sec cd. In order to successfully use it against a Butcher charge, you have to cast it proactively, timing him to get there at exactly the 1sec or so delay. He can cancel the charge. You can miss. And 9 times out of 10, he’s going to charge while your ult’s on cd. Zag is food for Butch. He’s a hard counter to her. Period.
The thing is, Butch does that to a LOT of heroes. As was pointed out, blinds don’t stop all his damage. Anything he casts (the onslaught, the hamstring, his ult) will all do damage, even if you can stave off 1-2 AAs. I play enough Lili to have been deleted by Butch many times running a full blind build. That’s right, he counters someone who’s supposed to counter him.
Blizzard has several “heroes” who are similarly broken. The only solution to them is to stunlock them. Stun counters everything, and it’s a lazy form of balancing. There is no rock-paper-scissors with that sort of balancing. Butch is the shotgun in the RPS game. And the only “counter” is to simply remove control of the hero from the player entirely. That’s bad balance, because it shifts the game to the team that best coordinates a long chain of CC.
For real though, just turn and leave.
Once butcher has 300 stacks, of course he can nuke anyone. The key is, to not feed him in the first place.
There are a few hard counters to butcher, take Tass for example. When I play tass I just laugh at butchers. Sometimes I let them charge me just to put up a wall and watch them shake uncontrollably. It’s hillarious.
Zarya has a good enough sheild to last through chains, as does Mediv.
The problem with Butcher is that players have gotten so bad lately, that he shines. This is true of many characters. Rag with fireball build is near unstoppable, because people just stand around and take damage.
It’s amazingly rare for me to see people dogging damage in games. The might be stuttering, but they are just doing random things. They don’t really understand the charactyers they face, or how and when those characters are likely to attack. The don’t do things like just look up to see who has ultimate and who doesn’t.
The state of play in the game is simply horrible. So . . . I say let butcher crush people until they learn some basic ideas.
And btw, if you are getting deleted by Butcher as lili, then you need to learn how to pick a build. Use fast feet. Also learn how and when to range. Don’t go front line when you know he still has a charge. Your COUNTER isn’t for you, it’s for whoever he charges.
Butcher is actually a really easy toon to make nearly irrelevant, if your team is any good, . . . . which I get is rare these days.
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Do you know why necro-bumping topics is discouraged?
One reason is that the game balance can change over long periods of time.
The second reason is that context is generally forgotten the longer someone goes and people want to interject their “expertise” by looking at a passing line, and not things around it.
The basis of your response to me is based on your experience.
So what is different if my response was based on my experience?
So here’s a few things to note:
- secant [had] a reputation for making absolute claims, and doing little else around it. Some might even suggest he didn’t actually play the game, but just make claims for kicks and giggles.
Some of what I posted is largely dealing with the gap in the assertion of the claims, and the evident lack of truth in their claims; per the reply one can surmise, if they played enough, that the claimant hasn’t tried any variation whatsoever. They are a “master player” in claim only.
So point of the post is not a ‘solution’ but in getting a reply to clarify the issue as being a ‘secant’ thing. Butcher is a polarizing figure at the far ends of the gameplay, so generally when people claim he ‘counters’ anything, the claims done out of trolling, inexperience, laziness and so on.
- For point of clarification here; your assertion is that you’ve “played her enough” to draw your conclusion. HP lists you with 9 days and 8 hours of gameplay, with your recorded zagara experience only coming from quick match. Now, it is on an upload basis, and maybe you don’t upload, but by comparison I have 29 days of game experience despite my inactivity, with [some] of my zag recorded against all modes, of which, the estimated mmr is higher in all of those than what it estimates of your play. (To note, a key part of these sites is that, as an alpha player, a large chunk of my gameplay predates these sites even recording. In that regard, it’s better for a ‘recent’ appraisal compared to a full-game history)
Now, that isn’t to say w/l stats/performance of whatever, but the basis of your reply to me, after however long a duration, in cherry-picking something to anchor your quote on was the basis of “your experience.”
From what I see of how certain you claim as such despite having an apparently lacking amount of experience, I am not convinced of your assertions.
I am of the opinion, and experience, that should you find yourself getting “enough experience”, that your opinion in this regard will change – that’s part of why there are divergent experiences regarding the butcher for the playbase.
Butcher is a “counter” insofar as they are enabled by the rest of their team (ie get stacks) while people that bemoan the hero tend to so out of their own efforts. When you have a hero that has the range, vision, defensive cds, kiting and about every tool at their arsenal to not even get touched by a hero (per 1v1) then any assertion of him “countering” her is generally done by people lacking in experience, not using all the tools they have available, or mindlessly split pushing solo and then getting ganked.
If butcher is the solo lane hero, against a zag, she should just about ruin his day; he can’t get close, can’t out push her, will get harassed near creeps, and his range is limited and his mobility direct that zag could nydus circles around him as the game progresses. However, this isn’t strictly a 1 v 1, so yada yada other stuff.
Zag tends to get the players who have a habit of trying to ‘win’ the game on their own, avoid setting up enough creep, minding the mini, communicating with allies (mia calls, declaring if they’re skipping, stalling, or contesting the objective) and a host of other things generally not conveyed by people who thinking quoting a single line after more than a year magically makes their claim correct.
But sure, feel free to demonstrate that a concern generally conveyed by people lacking a sense of observation and experience in how they compose a reply in a forum is not indicative of similar behavior in their gameplay.
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Not really. Even with 200 stacks he is still kilable. You just need to make sure he wont get his brand off on someone so he heal to full again. Then you pretty much got him down full stacks or not. I have tried to lose games with 560 stacks cause enemy team denied me the brand healing by running away from me when i try to brand them. Butcher is like any dps hero squiscy as hell and die fast to cc and follow up dmg.
The only reason some people says he is broken is because they lost a game to him with a team that had no cc or counter to him. People also need to learn that going alone vs a Butcher is also a bad idea since Butcher is a hero that is an expert at killing solo players so going as five is best you can do since Butcher cant 5v1 a whole team.
And its only gets better when you have tanks on the team with attack speed reduction spells and stuns.
So all in all. Watch your minimap, go as 5 and dont facecheck him when he brand you. Then you will have a much easier time vs him.
Here is a list of possible counters to Ruthless Assault (E):
- stealth (Vanish, Eyes in the Dark, Nova’s “1”, Invisible Friends, Shadowstalk, Invisibility)
- cleanse (just before impact)
- self unstoppable (DW, Indomitable, Iron Skin, Will of the Forsaken, Burrow Charge)
- walls (Zombie wall, Force Wall, Entomb)
- stasis (Void Prison, Time Trap, Devouring Maw)
- self stasis (Ice Block, Dimentional Shift, Warp, Time Trap, Phase Out, Submerge)
- protected btw (Force of Will, Parry)
- invulnerable (Divine Shield, Sanctification)
- blink (either frame perfect before impact or over a long enough wall)
- run through your team (he will either cancel or die shortly after if not)
- gates (he cant get through)
- keeps (sure he can charge in, but probably he wont get out alive because of momement/AA slow)
I think that is enough for the moment.
As butcher is one of my mains, there’s nothing OP or UP about him.
The only thing that’s wrong is the team not targeting butcher 1st. He is very easily deleted early game. The fact that people don’t target him or people solo lane and over extend means butcher can roam and kill you with a dps backup by his side.
I am roughly at 60% winrate with him and I can tell you know, prob 90% of my wins is from getting my meat 200+. When I am not at 200+, pretty much a guarantee loss
Do you know why you type endlessly about a topic they claim shouldn’t exist? I do, too much time on your hands.
over 100 lines in response to 1. do you really think anyone reads what you write? i have to say, I always find it amusing when I see one of your 5000 word esays. when I do read them, I can often summerize them to a line or two . . . you should.
If you actually had any worthwhile self-awareness, you’d probably find yourself choking on your delusional smarm.
Not only do you have a penchant for bumping necroed topics as is – often acting like your months-behind replies accomplish little more than wasting what time you claim to value – but you then neglect the apparent irony of responding to a post pointing out why necros are bad and all the while demonstrate the list to be correct.
But here you are, once again, adding onto the wonderful irony by pretending people don’t have time as is during the covid anti-convention where you want to pretend you have such wonderful value with your adolescent taunts.
The capacity to ‘summarize’ what I type per your standards is an exercise is self-deceit and one you actually seem to have convinced yourself to be a reason to revel in ignorance.
If you’d bother to actually pay better attention, the whole holier-than thou rhetoric you’re trying to tote would be moot cuz I often spell out why I prefer length on these replies to the demanded bevariety. Sadly. the general context of those proliferate from the same general traits by people who don’t bother to pay attention, and then lack the awareness to realize they’re lying to themselves accordingly.
So gj on proving a point contrary to your arrogant tiddly here; when you get over yourself enough to actually read it, maybe you’ll realize the irony of this bunk and stop doing it over and over again.
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Why does this thread have a habit of getting bumped?
this is like the 5th time now holy please
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Smells like 2016.
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