Butcher is beyond broken

Then you should see when people bump 1 year old topics.

go read her posts, they are abusive. reminds me of a liturature undergrad whos favorite book is Ulysses, and thinks writting more words has more meaning.

the opposite of your assumption is actually true. I do read that rambling nonsense, and I do understand it. then, at the end, I think . . . man why does this person just babble on when they could say the same thing in 10 words.

it’s called style, and some people have zero writting style, so they write more and say less.

Twain “Sorry for the long letter, I didn’t have time to write a short one”.

Here, I’ll show you what I mean. Her in (), me after.

(Do you know why necro-bumping topics is discouraged?) waste of words. Rehtorical question. Does nothing other than project arrogance. No meaning.

(One reason is that the game balance can change over long periods of time.)

The game changes.

(The second reason is that context is generally forgotten the longer someone goes and people want to interject their “expertise” by looking at a passing line, and not things around it.)

Context changes, and context matters. Poorly written.

(The basis of your response to me is based on your experience.
So what is different if my response was based on my experience?)

Both our points are based on experience. What’s the difference?

(So here’s a few things to note:) complete waste of words

(1. secant [had] a reputation for making absolute claims, and doing little else around it. Some might even suggest he didn’t actually play the game, but just make claims for kicks and giggles.)

Hard to undersand what the relevance is here, but I think the point is some guy noone knows made assumptive claims, and she thinks he’s trolling

(Some of what I posted is largely dealing with the gap in the assertion of the claims, and the evident lack of truth in their claims; per the reply one can surmise, if they played enough, that the claimant hasn’t tried any variation whatsoever. They are a “master player” in claim only.)

His claims didn’t reflect his knowledge or skill. This paragraph is so badly written that it’s hard to tell if there is more in there.

(So point of the post is not a ‘solution’ but in getting a reply to clarify the issue as being a ‘secant’ thing. Butcher is a polarizing figure at the far ends of the gameplay, so generally when people claim he ‘counters’ anything, the claims done out of trolling, inexperience, laziness and so on.)

His post isn’t a solution, it’s inaccurate and not genuine. People see butcher’s power differently.

Ok, I’m already so sick of this unclear rambling. Plus, the gist is that the writer is arrogantly asserting all kinds of assumptions, while complaining that someone else is doing the same thing. It’s tedious, and poorly written.

I think I used about 10 pecent of the words to say more meaningful things.

THAT is the issue I have with walls and walls of self delusional text.

Here’s the rest of the post if you care to try to write it more clearly.


  1. For point of clarification here; your assertion is that you’ve “played her enough” to draw your conclusion. HP lists you with 9 days and 8 hours of gameplay, with your recorded zagara experience only coming from quick match. Now, it is on an upload basis, and maybe you don’t upload, but by comparison I have 29 days of game experience despite my inactivity, with [some] of my zag recorded against all modes, of which, the estimated mmr is higher in all of those than what it estimates of your play. (To note, a key part of these sites is that, as an alpha player, a large chunk of my gameplay predates these sites even recording. In that regard, it’s better for a ‘recent’ appraisal compared to a full-game history)

Now, that isn’t to say w/l stats/performance of whatever, but the basis of your reply to me, after however long a duration, in cherry-picking something to anchor your quote on was the basis of “your experience.”

From what I see of how certain you claim as such despite having an apparently lacking amount of experience, I am not convinced of your assertions.

I am of the opinion, and experience, that should you find yourself getting “enough experience”, that your opinion in this regard will change – that’s part of why there are divergent experiences regarding the butcher for the playbase.

Butcher is a “counter” insofar as they are enabled by the rest of their team (ie get stacks) while people that bemoan the hero tend to so out of their own efforts. When you have a hero that has the range, vision, defensive cds, kiting and about every tool at their arsenal to not even get touched by a hero (per 1v1) then any assertion of him “countering” her is generally done by people lacking in experience, not using all the tools they have available, or mindlessly split pushing solo and then getting ganked.

If butcher is the solo lane hero, against a zag, she should just about ruin his day; he can’t get close, can’t out push her, will get harassed near creeps, and his range is limited and his mobility direct that zag could nydus circles around him as the game progresses. However, this isn’t strictly a 1 v 1, so yada yada other stuff.

Zag tends to get the players who have a habit of trying to ‘win’ the game on their own, avoid setting up enough creep, minding the mini, communicating with allies (mia calls, declaring if they’re skipping, stalling, or contesting the objective) and a host of other things generally not conveyed by people who thinking quoting a single line after more than a year magically makes their claim correct.

But sure, feel free to demonstrate that a concern generally conveyed by people lacking a sense of observation and experience in how they compose a reply in a forum is not indicative of similar behavior in their gameplay.

i can see that there’s some people who would avoid reading certain things etc… however the way he writes annoys you right? i’m just wondering cause i don’t remember seeing anyone complaining about his replies being so long.

because they don’t read them lol

i’m not saying that nobody reads them but i get what you mean since i know some people don’t read most of the replies in general even if it wasn’t a long reply as i remember someone was asking me for advice and when i answered he simply just ignored despite him asking for it and that got me confused on how people would ask then ignore when you answer their request. oh well

No, sorry I only see a noob who demands a nerf for a Tier D hero. Use your head, get blind heroes or Arthas and you wrecks Butcher without trouble before he gets strong.

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but i want butcher to die without me countering him!!! :sob:

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So my own personal issues & feelings on Butcher…

Early game, he should be a MENACE.
Just like in original Diablo 1, when you hear that blood chilling, “AHHHHH…FRESH MEAT!” You should dump a load in your adult diapers, and go running for your Mommy/Healer/Tank/entire team. He’s a HUNGRY Butcher - he wants your MEAT! He’s like Hackin’ Pete from that other game franchise, and he’s gonna chop you all up!

But then, mid-late game, he IMHO, does get -way- too powerful. He as OP said, can just press E, and nearly insta-delete anyone. Not saying there is zero counterplay to him, however due to the nature of HotS itself, very few times will you be able to pick talents, etc to counter that (since no item buys, can’t just stack armor, etc.) So what do you do to counter him?

You can try and rely on your team, to always be with you, to focus him down, stun & CC him, etc etc. Though as any of us who have played games past the tutorial know, this isn’t really a viable strategy. I think at this point, it’s gonna come down to, does the majority of the HotS community think he’s OP, and needs a tone down, or are too many players simply lazy/uneducated, that they need to focus him early, to keep him from stacking meat? (I feel the latter may be the case.)

I know that when I play as him, I HATE early game. Butcher feels really squishy for a melee champ, and easily focused down. Perhaps give him a trade-off? Reduce the effect of the max stacks of meat (btw I HATE any mechanic that is “lost on death” and I usually avoid these champs/talents like a Plague Inc level plague…) and maybe give him some extra early game survivability or farm, to help offset the difficulty of getting the initial meat stacks.

I stopped here. Butcher is squishy as hell and even the softest CC neuters him.

I would say, half the Hero Roster is able to delete the butcher. You just have to know how to engage him.

Ye but when qm is 5v5 dps team like 60% of the time people will complain about it.

Start playing tank and see how easy he is to shut down and you will see butcher is not op at all.

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Can’t believe he is still not nerfed.

Butcher is Valeera’s son.

Its hard to take someone like you serious when your whole post history is all about how broken all those balanced heroes is. Come back when you got someone better to tell about.

You tell me? D: Frogsarooooon :broken_heart:

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\o/ RISE! \o/

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Hate butcher? Like necroing threads? Maybe it’s time to give xul a try!

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how the heck did this thread get necro’d?
Anyways, I do think Butcher could use a rework; he’s fun for QM, but he’s very one dimensional, and feels very binary: Deny him his meat and force Objective fights, and your team is going to be at a clear advantage. On the other hand, if he gets over 200 quickly, it swings the other way.

Lets compare him to another characters who function on stacks, like naz. Naz benefits from stacks, but has much less weaknesses early game, and can STILL feel like a snowball late game.
Maybe they could make his scaling from meat less powerful? Like his big benefit from hitting 200 stacks is just that he no longer loses meat, rather than that he gets a big bonus to his stacks? (So the scaling is purely from just the stacks of meat, not the bonus at 200)

That being said, I think he’d benefit from reworking some other skillshot type component to his kit as well, since 2 of his skills are point and click.