AA build is really good if you can avoid dying, pumps out stupid levels of damage very fast.
Just making it clear. That’s per Hatred stack, so 20% increase in AA damage at 10 stack (up to max of 60%). I think some people forgot to mention the if you have high uptime/can maintain 10 Hatred stack for a long period of time. It’s by hitting whatever: minions, wall inbetween, heroes for more stack. If you can do this while not dying, AA Valla can pump by crazy poke and sustain damage.
But as I said, not my cup of tea. Moreso in QM I would say (can’t make proper comp for Valla).
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Yeah 180 / 160 = 12.5% damage increase. I think gambit is only worth it if you have a comp that can keep you alive all game.
After some success with Q/AA hybrid, i’m running into the same issue as Nova, can’t burst down anyone in a team fight. In addition I think Q build is actually more hazardous than pure AA because you gotta use vault offensively instead of saving it for an escape.
I think I’m gonna go W/AA hybrid so I start the fight at higher hatred. And the slow helps me land spirit
W (slow + hatred) → R (stun) → Q (damage enhanced by W) while AAing and save E to escape.
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A Valla hybrid build makes it highly dysfunctional compared to the optimal one.
AA build at max stacks, lvl 15 and even without a single gambit remaining, she still leeches up to 66% of her life off a single minion wave.
If you’re having a hard time getting Hatred stacks during team fights, then you’ll have problem finishing off someone no matter what build you go, unless you go 1v1 with Q build + having lvl 20, but that’s not a team fight.
5v5 ranged assassins, your best bet is full W build since it’s the safest and AoE dmg does the job against no healer.
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How you build valla highly depends on the situation.
AA build is only good if you can keep up the hatred stacks.
Which requires 2 things:
- a target to attack (e.g. enemie is playing double tank)
- staying alive (by your own skill or by your team protecting you)
If you face high burst dmg on the enemie side with long range abilities. You won’t be able to do a lot of AA.
It’s better to play Q or W build.
While W build is better if you need more waveclear and aoe dmg, Q build is better to burst down a target quickly.
I’m having trouble generating Creed stacks not hatred stacks. I figured if all I’m gonna get is a 2% increase in base attack damage then might as well go Fire at Will and get a head start on hatred at the start of the fight cause the two should work out to be about the same right? Or something like that.
Help me out here.
4: I don’t think any talent here helps AA build. So might as well go Arsenal to hit more people with W to start fights with a higher hatred.
7: Both Frost Shot and Hot Pursuit helps AA. Frost Shot because slows mean more AA and it also sets up Spirit. Also helps with chasing. Hot Pursuit on the otherhand imo is niche. You can’t use it to chase because the other guy is gonna make it to a fort, that’s why slow is better for chasing. And using it for retreat is redundant with Vault. Either you Vault away and be safe or be caught in CC and die. Increased move speed doesn’t help. So might as well go Frost Shot since it synergizes with Arsenal and boosts hungering arrow damage.
13: Definitely Tempered by Discipline. Full W builds don’t benefit from the other two talents.
16: Manticore. This is like the only other talent in the entire kit that boosts AA. Literally. Other than talent level 1, no other talent boosts AA. IMO going punishment isn’t going to do anything. Getting a 2nd W off later in the fight doesn’t do jack especially compared to the %maxhp damage you do with Manticore.
So yeah, the W talents low level help AA too. And the later W talents are bad so nothing is lost by going AA talents. So the end result in this W/AA hybrid build is that your AA is still on par with a full AA build and with high hatred generated from your opening W your Farflight Quiver/Storm of Vengeance is powered up from the get go.
Or something like that. Maybe you can tell me why this thinking is wrong and why pure AA will outperform this or pure W will outperform this.
If you know how to position yourself, stutter step, and you don’t have hard counters like blinds… AA build is really good. On Battlefield of Eternity, pick Q build. Anything else is stupid on that map.
4: Death Dealer with fully stacked at lvl 15 is 757 dmg per AA. Without the talent, it does 485 dmg. Add up the CDR for escape or more aggression, it’s perfect for AA.
7: Frost Shot doesn’t have a benefic long enough for AA, pressing Q or W constantly with AA build is too much mana cost.
There was a time when W was the strongest. Now, it’s AA. If you want to deep dive into it, read the patch notes and stats from heroesprofile for above 1k games and diamond.
https://heroespatchnotes.com/hero/valla.html
https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/TalentBuilder/?hero=Valla&timeframe_type=last_update&timeframe=&game_type=sl&league_tier=master,diamond&mirror=Exclude
Then again, if you haven’t properly practiced your stutter step enough since you main Nova, Azmo and Jaina, then you might be more comfortable with W build Valla.
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You keep saying max stacks but I’m never seeing a game that goes over 150 stacks. Especially if the skill level is higher than normal at which point no one dies, over extends, and the kill count is like 5 total 15minutes in so no opportunity to rack up stacks. My average is 140 stacks by game’s end on a high kill game.
I do know how to stutter step. It’s called kiting in dota. And I stutter stepped a lot with jaina because I went blizzard build and that build requires you to right click. But that’s not the issue here. If anyone jumps on Valla she’s dead. Pure and simple. 5 assassins on 5 assassin games I go Q build because of it.
I’m winning my games now so I think I understand what to do now.\
4 or 5 assassin game = Q build. Just burst the closest guy down. And vault sideways not towards the guy
Game with tanks go my W hybrid build and grab Storm of Vengeance because increased AA range doesn’t do jack against diving comps which is like 99% of all QM matches. So W to open with high hatred and just keep blasting until you get dive ganked in the fight.
really? I usually go Farflight because by 20, enemy team burst is usually way too high for me to safely engage anymore.
I meant for lvl 10 vs strafe. For 20 either the bonus attack speed or range skills are great. Really just depends on the team comp and situation.
Ok I think I understand Valla now. Gave Creed a try against non-burst-dive teams and it kicked major butt. That 25% ias really makes a difference. Stacked with storm of vengeance and it’s crazy as hell.
I also noticed that what makes Q build work is the damage quest. The extra bounce and such isn’t what makes it work. It’s 100% damage quest. Either stack it up or fail.
But after 3 deaths I’m pretty sure my W hybrid build is better than Creed. 4-6 hatred at start to get spirit of vengeance maxed asap.
Now the main issue is AA build is no impact until 16. And at least in QM Storm of Vengeance is mandatory for AA build to start kicking butt.
So Q build is best early game but is bad at end game cause even with acrobat you’re not bursting anything down in a teamfight. And more importantly, the “burst” is as slow as icy-veins Jaina. And requires stacks of Spirit of Vengeance to actually kill anyone.
AA build is best endgame but requires you to not die, ever. And my W hybrid build is better than pure AA build with several deaths.
Since expecting to never die in a QM game is not realistic, i’m divided between pure Q, W hybrid, or pure Q until level 20 at which point I go storm instead of acrobat and AA things. But without gambit or a head start on hatred it might be a failure. On the other hand, if I do get to 10 hatred, the Q hybrid should be better than my W hybrid.
Iunno. It’s gonna be one of the three. Q, Q hybrid, or W hybrid.
I have learned it’s ok to save Vault in Q build until you need to escape and then fire the 2nd Q.
Q build late game with tons of stack deletes people with zero skill.
This. If you stack Q properly, then late game you are a monster with acrobat. It may not be burst in the sense that it bounces but you can q, vault, q, vault, q vault, q within a couple seconds and the total damage is just insane. Unless they get invulnerable most heroes will die.
I doubt this. Hear my experience.
- No matter how much you stack you still can’t burst down tanks. In training you can with 2 stacks of Spirit of Vengeance but I failed to do 50% damage to a tank in a real game.
- In a team fight even the other squishies will cover the target to save its life.
- The target squishy has an escape that will prevent you from bursting it down meaning you gotta bait it out somehow first. Genji and Zeratul are impossible to kill with Q build.
- Lots of squishies have some kind of body blocker or stasis. Nova is impossible to kill with Q build because of her decoys.
So it’s really just highly situational and not the super easy delete combo like you guys are saying. I have the exact same problem with Rewind Nova. 1v1 I can burst any hero down. I can fight tanks and win with lethal decoy and holo stability with rewind. But in a teamfight with a healer I’m worthless. I’m an opportunistic hyena circling around waiting for my team to bait all the anti-burst, healing, and escape stuff off a hero so I can then burst it down.
Don’t see Q build being any better than that.
Hi Sophia,
I don’t mean to Necro this thread but I am working on a very thorough guide on Basic Attack build Valla, with the whys and whens for everything. I think I have a lot of information and experience to add here, with some contrary opinions with what has already been suggested. Why would you want to hear me out? I main Valla and get recognized consistently with my group as being the guy who is “farming MVP commendations”. But really it’s up to you. If you’re still interested in learning more about the hero, let me know and I can follow up with you when I have the guide posted (expecting a week from now, two weeks tops), or we can even consult directly in Discord or something. I would be happy to assist another Valla enthusiast!
One thing I want to point out right now is that most people in this thread don’t mention how good Acrobat is for Valla’s 20. I take this talent for EVERY build. Multishot, HA, Basic Attack. It is just too good. I go heavily into detail in the guide as to why. It’s fair to say she has 3 great picks @ 20 for Basic Attack/Creed build, but Acrobat takes the cake in my opinion. Consider Death Dealer at 4 and stacked Creed by end-game, even if it’s only the 150 autos you were stating you’d get for a while there. The problem with HA/Acrobat not deleting people is that, in team fights, your arrows WILL bounce to other targets; you don’t have the control to focus your damage with HA in team fights; the skill relies on isolated targets for true, effective burst. With auto attack build — The Death Dealer-empowered autos x3 (x4 by the time first charge is cd, bc only 5s vault cd…plus vault resets/mana refunds if you’re playing wise means potentially endless vaults/caltrops/huge damage). I literally dance around the field, leaving slows and secondary damage all the while blasting out Autos that make the enemy cringe and shy away. It’s very fun, and very brutal. Happy hunting!
1: Creed
4: Death Dealer
7: Hot Pursuit
10: Rain of Vengeance (never, ever ever Strafe)
13: Tempered by Discipline
16: Manticore
20: Acrobat
Again, the guide will offer a lot more explanation and reasoning.
-BrainSlurpie
There is no better. Depends on a situation :
There is already a magician in a team, AA build. If not, then W build.
If an enemy healer is “AOE” then Q build. If an enemy healer is a “single target”, then W build.
If there are PvE targets on a map as Immortal for example, then PvE Q’s talent regardless of a build.
Against fat heroes and divers like Genzi, Zeratul, Tracer, AA build (but take spell armor at level 13 against Zeratul).
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Tbh, not sure if it is just me but you can get away without a healer or even a frontline for that matter.
Seething Hatred works great too as if you pair it with tempered by discipline at 13 the self heal is nice as the vaults self sustain you more with the heals but that’s just my opinion.
I think you might be right in a sense, vs capable players poking will be a constant issue depending on the comp. Q has a higher damage threshold as well (Normally you do more damage with Q than with Auto Attack.