Ranged vs melee assassins debate has been said a lot so I’m focusing more on melee assassins vs bruisers (also melee except rexxar).
Melee assassins currently good: Alarak, murky, samuro, zeratul.
Bruisers: All except DVA.
Bruisers being bulkier might be overshadowing melee assassins unless the melee assassin occupies a niche. Ex: Murky and Samuro shoving lane, Alarak and Zeratul instabursting other assassins.
Are melee assassins actually underpowered compared to their bulkier counterparts? Is there any solution for the melee assassins? I don’t want more damage in the game, but by definition is buffing their damage the only way to get them picked over bruisers? Should bruisers get less mobility?
1 dva is fine. Niche but fine. Not saying she shouldn’t have a rework but on infernal shrines i still dominate with her. Nor am i the only dva main
2 melee assassins are hard to use, thats one of the bigger reasons for them being picked less. Bruisers can solo lane: generally more health and sustain. Melee assassins often go with 4 man. I dont really think they need a class buff.
3 One of their issues is that if they aren’t counteted they can actually carry games (alarak, kerrigan, illy, butcher in low ranks). People often prioritize drafting counters to them because of this.
In any case you’re just wrong about them being underpowered. Some definitely are but alarak, kerrigan, samuro, zeratul (less so bc of his popularity dragging it down) have generally been considered some of the most op and high winrate carry heroes That we have. Id still be down for illy buffs he could use them
As mentioned, melee assassins tend to be more difficult to play, and the harder ones are actually terrifying in the right hands. There are two I didn’t see discussed yet, and while you don’t see her often, a skilled Maiev main is about as good a carry hero as you can imagine. Qhira is equally devastating in lower ranks. The only melee assassin I would consider in a poor spot at the moment is Gazlowe. Murky is more niche than bad.
But, personally, I think Gazlowe fulfills a position of a split-pusher, so theoretically, I believe he sees some use. His disabling lazer-build is also useful. Then again, HotS seems to be going into a teamfight-focused direction and less about solo laning, so idk.
Bruisers have the great advantage of having tank resistance and melee dps damage, in my opinion the role of bruisers should not exist, they should simply be dps melee because bruisers like artanis or imperius can do more damage than many dps and have the defense and the hp of a tank.
I don’t know the answer tho this question, primarily because I find the classifications for these 2 roles aren’t described well enough.
By the community, I believe a bruiser is a mix of Asn and Tank. Some resilience and some dmg. Resilience will usually come in some form life sustain or dmg mitigation. I think this is pretty straight forward. Look at the hero lists, this fits pretty well
Then you have melee asn: Look at hero lists. They seem all over the place.
The problem? Why is Alarak, Kerrigan and Butcher melee asns and if they’re melee asns, why are Thrall, Malthael and Xul bruisers? What the main difference?
Without an actual proper classification/definition It’s hard to tell the difference between the 2 classes in general.
I see dva like alot of people saw old tass. She too niche and could use a rework. Imo in that niche shes not weak. I have had great success with her in higher ranks (not master to be clear).
I think whether a Bruiser is scarier than a Melee Assassin depends a lot more on how durable you are, specifically how much burst damage you can handle.
Valla probably shouldn’t be nearly as worried about Artanis or Imperius than about Alarak or Samuro, while Muradin will usually find Artanis to be more threatening to him than Alarak’s one-and-done burst.
Depends. Maiev is top tier if used properly and fit any comp (shouldnt solo though). She creates opportunities, and with quest lv1, at 16, she can delete people like nothing.
Qhira can destroy on solo lane against many strong bruisers like Malthael, Sonya, Ragnaros or Artanis. She has a tough time against rexxar if you cant reach him, though.
A good Gazlowe can really stomp heavily solo focus games too if enemy cant play against him. He requires experience, though.
You start the topic with relative words like “good” that don’t mean anything really…
This whole topic seems like a joke and people join in to tell you what they think is “good” “bad” and it still doesn’t mean anything really…
What is your criteria for a good hero?
How do you answer your own topic question? How do you figure out how strong bruisers or melee assassin generally are?^^
Maybe it doesn’t really make sense to put those heroes in categories and accept that every hero in the game is unique?
Like what’s the point of a super generalized answer?
“Are melee assassins generally weaker than bruisers?”
What if the answer is “YES” and what if the answer is “NO”?^^
One does not know much more i think…
yes. which having a niche hero isnt necessarily bad. kind of like abathur. previous to this patch he was less played but still ok in some games. the meta has shifted a lot though back to a heavier AA focus and now i see aba even more so its worked a lot in aba’s favor.
the issue is when heroes are ‘too niche’ that the only time they become useful is that single instance where group comp is perfect or that one map. that imo means the hero is just not right.
my favorite hero to always point the finger at because its always going to be there is cho’gall. its always going to be niche because it requires two ppl to agree to play a single hero. that alone is enough… but then with cho’gall you really are playing 4v5 in the ‘bodies’ available. that can give you a disadvantage in things.
i like maiev, but like you say only if used well. which is why i dont see many ppl playing her.
Melee assassins IMO are the hardest to balance heroes in the game as quite a few tend to fluctuate between useless or horribly oppressive in the right hands like Valeera, Zeratul, Maiev, Butcher, and Illidan so I kinda fear giving buffs to melee assassins
well he did and was for a long time niche. we arent talking about you seeing him still being played in HGC… that alone is a niche circumstance being less than 1%.
when AA fell out of power way back a long time ago…
ray was crap still then…
illi was junk to play…
tass was useless…
then aba kind of followed suite because he was the enabler. kind of like tass he supported the AA play back then.
now when things started getting reworked then aba started coming back.
According to Blizzard, statistically, not really. There’s just always been a perception that you need a second beefy frontline, and that’s just not true. It’s like if someone in the backline gets dived on, god forbid, they don’t have any tools of their own, or that there’s a healer, or even the other backlines helping out. People are just incapable of even imagining adapting.
Melee assassins are usually a little more fickle to play, so learning their survivability tools so you don’t die is just going to be less forgiving, but that does not mean they’re not effective. Bruisers just give you more room to not blow up immediately and you are allowed to be dumb without seeming you are bad, but again, that doesn’t make you good either though.