When is his W build viable? I tend to see myself get higher healing numbers when I go Q build vs his AA or W build(but I might just be playing those other builds wrong idk). I know the shields good against DoT abilities (and kind of granting enemies more health… kinda)… but the build seems to be a hybrid of shielding/damage instead of the pure healing from Q build. When should you take W build instead of a more straightforward healing build?
This is the build I’m talking about:
1: Power Word: Shield
4: Moral Compass
7: any
10: any
13: Speed of the Pious
16: Holy Nova
20: any
In my experience Moral Compass is not necessary for the W build, in fact I think it’s main use is in the AA build as the bonus AA range plus those AA’s triggered at the end of W also trigger push forward later
W build I think combo’s best with the Double Chastise talent I forgot the name of because that little extra spell power also impacts the shield amounts both Anduin and allies get
Plus it’s in my experinnce the safest build if you do not trust your tank providing the most self heal power and relying the least on Q out of all the builds except mabye AA
I think its better to take moral compas when the number of damage or healing ticks you generate or relevant.
I take it when ever i want to go lightwell, inner focus, or varians legacy. Its also very usefull with renew sense it’s a pretty safe way of resettling the duration of renew.
1 and 13 w tend to be the best talents in that area. You go w build when 4,16 alllow you to.
Sometimes you want the pierce at 4 because enemies have a tank that can costfree soak up every e you throw and they have a weaker target who can play safely behind them. Johanna is a good example of this. A good johanna is never going to let you sink an e but with piece you might snag a tychus riding behind her. Sometimes you just want more healing so w is good, but ifyou want more cc potential you get pierce. The spell power is an added bonus.
16 is about whether or not you need the additional d. If not then get a healing talent you prefer to use. I think the numbers all line up anyways so q cdr or w healing is about preference.
Good question, I like w build for the following reasons:
As baseline, Divine Star has a very delayed heal. This talent’s shield is applied when the star goes out meaning that you can provide a great burst heal combo. Good for squishy type bruisers like Thrall.
Additionally, it’s also a great talent if the enemy puts pressure on Anduin himself. The personal shield is quite powerful.
The damage is respectably strong and can throw divers off as they don’t expect it. It also helps dramatically improve your personal wave clear if you find yourself getting frustrated with your team mates who are supposed to doing the clearing.
I agree about its apparent value in his AA build. The reason I put it in the build is due to the fact that with W build you’re using W much more often to utilize the other W talents. Not only are you dealing bonus AA damage, but you’re AA range being increased allows for safer positioning, while still being effective.
I would also argue that the double hit E talent is fairly easily telegraphed and it could take time to stack it up if the enemy knows how to dodge. I take it with my Q build though since spell power can help dish out higher healing.
So if this is the case, why not take a completely different build? What would make W build viable in that situation? You could use the pierce talent with other builds as well. That’s kinda more of my question…
That’s kind of what I was thinking. I was just concerned that the shielding numbers were less than the healing numbers so I felt like it was less effective. That’s why I was questioning which one was more worth it, the pure heal Q build or the shield/heal build.
Hmm, I can see that. Let me ask you this then… what situations would you feel the W build would be a good choice over the Q healing build?
Yes you’re right. Level 1 Q pumps out superior healing per second but only under ideal circumstances (i.e. you’re swapping targets). In the event of burst healing one target then W shield is better.
The bonus heal you get from Q is 15% so an extra 42 health whereas the shield provides 128 health. Yes you could heal the same target 3 seconds later (and forego your bonus heal and cooldown reduction) for that bit extra survivability, but that’s something you need to weigh up in the heat of the moment.
I think you’re looking at this too rigidly. I dont tend to play anduin with “w build” in mind. Alot of his tiers just have 1 good talent which happens to be the w talent. 1,13. Then at 4 and 16 i look at conditions on ground or to my playstyle.
At 4 i consider whether i need more cc or more healing/damage. If i want healing and get w talent this has no effect on my choice at 16.
At 16 i consider whether i need to take the pull or if i want more healing. 7/10 would go for the q cdr at 16 even with the 2-3 other w talents because its a good talent. I myself LOVE holy nova for the utility. Q doesnt really have any talents that go well with it. Shield at 1 is the best option most of the time and the 16 talent tier is dealer’s choice imo.
This was my biggest complaint About rework. Before his talents had synergy because bold strategy healed the 50ish hp everytime you dealt damage. So w talent at 4 and holy nova at 16 really synergized. Now they’re just completely independent talents.
The healing from Divine Star isn’t too impressive unless you take Holy Nova at 16 and you take the CDR at 13. Plus if they don’t take damage for 4 seconds while they have the shield its 100% useless. The healing isn’t.
The only issue I have with this is that blowing the W to heal one person is kind of a waste of the ability. I try to use it in team fights where I’m hitting at least 2 people if not more. Plus the base cd for Divine Star is double that of Flash Heal, so I think its better used as a team fight ability or when you’re grouped. Because of that, I don’t think you should be using W every time its off CD unless you’re in a big fight or there are multiple heroes near you. Q’s should be used all the time. Since you’re using W less often it makes me think twice about picking it when I can get a lot more healing output from Q build since over the course of the game I’m using it much much more.
I don’t think I am. Its a deeper question because I am asking why the shield is superior vs the Q. Its a more situational question but my goal for my question is to find out when or why W build would be better than Q build or AA build and what those situations would be. I’m not trying to debate that Q build is better or W build is better, I’m asking which one and where and why. Sorry if it came across another way.
Ah yeah I forget that level 4 is more of a utility tier not a heal or damage tier. More of the reasons to pick a talent at those tiers seems to come down to what you want your abilities to do aside from heal. For example W talent at 4 is a good choice if you went AA build and doesn’t help with W build at all except for the fact that with W build, after 13, you’d be able to use it more often during fights and therefore throw out an AA each time you do. Its also useful if you want better AA range, for safety or for AA build.
There doesn’t seem to be any direct synergy with W build at 16, besides the fact that you’re getting the benefits and cdr from previous talent tiers every time you use it… which should be more often if you went full W build.
I don’t remember the changes… but I agree. Some of his talent tiers lack synergy with other talents. Standalone talents are good for versatility reasons, but not every tier should be completely independent. I think they did this because the devs wanted more versatile talent builds rather than cookie cutter builds. That’s fine, because talent diversity is a good thing… but just in moderation. Builds are builds for a reason.
Why do you feel it being less useful outside of fights is a major concern? Fights are the most important time to be healing.
Besides, a completely talentless anduin could keep up with non combat healing.
Divine stars base healing is only 2 more then the shield. That’s no insignificant increase. It’s a bigger burst of healing then what the Q talent gives in a single cast (far more if you consider that w is aoe) and very well could make the difference in saving someone.
I feel like that because why would you use W to heal outside of a fight when you get 25% more healing for each hero hit. Its a waste of mana, especially since nothing is going to eat the shield since they’re not taking damage. Q’s are better for non-combat healing.
Very true. It does make the spell more challenging to use. On the one hand you want to hit enemy heroes to give you that baseline healing increase. On the other hand you want to hit friendly heroes to get the shield.
Another good point. To be honest Im one to often gravitate more towards the Q build. However when i look at the stats i find that the two builds are very similar in both popularity and win rate.
For that i think the anduin rework was one of those great success stories. It makes for interesting discussions like the one we’re having now.
I tend to find myself picking Q build majority of the time as well. I have played W build in the past, but I wanted to know what situations its best at. As someone who’s mostly played Q build I don’t have much experience and when I recently tried using it, I found that my healing output was lower.
That was the inspiration for this thread and I wanted people’s opinions on it or advice on when to take it. I’m not trying to say its better or worse than any other build, just wanted to discuss what its pros and cons are and why it would be better than Q build, and in what situations.