Alot of heroes need better talent picks!

General Discussion
1

not just uther but im going to pick on uther he has some good examples!, alot of heroes needs some buffed up talents.

he would be nice to have some talent picks that can actually put off some different play styles, like how holy shock does!, while the ones in holy shock talent tree at lvl 7 don’t really put off much of a different style gameplay compared to holyshock.

examples uther:

lvl 7 talents- all are only for roots!, stuns, or silence! that talent tree is terrible with 90 sec cd on hand of protection for just a slow!. i have gone vs multiple groups and solo’s that only have slows! so the other two are useless. and the hand of protection is just kinda of bad just to remove a slow.

lvl 4 holy fire and pursuit of justice are just not that great!. compared to holyshock that does way way more!, for some self healing more often and damage!. holy fire should shield uther for the damage it does to make it more useful, and pursuit of justice should put a seal of light on the target that gives some AA heals for you and team that hit that target.

i have been playing this game for a long time and when i play uther i just NEVER ever use those talets they’re almost pointless most of the time or run into situations like at lvl 7 no one has stuns, roots or silence so no much value out of that talent choice all game.

you guys can put your own on here as well for other heroes. it would be nice to have a bit more game change up in some talent trees with talents that don’t get picked much and i know most those talents i picked don’t same with other heroes dead water talents that only get used very very little. holy shock doesn’t need a nerf it would just be nice to have other options.

2 Likes
2

Honestly i rarely pick the q damage. I’d much rather be using it on my guys in fights than on enemies for no damage and a 6 second cooldown.

The movement speed is nice to chase or reposition and his holy aura is nice for waveclear. I’d much rather they update his 13 because you have the e weakening or spell shield on uther of all beings lol.

In the spirit of this topic though please change thralls 13/20 talents. Sundering upgrade needs a rework +the other 2. Im tired of taking trait at 13

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Nova Advanced Cloaking lvl 1, rewarding people for not aa-ing and not mounting (she’s slightly slower than mounted and does no damage).
Holo Stability lvl 4: makes the player ‘troll the enemy team’ with clones (the enemy team ends up ignoring the clones and nova’s team plays 4 vs 5).

Li Li’s Eager Adventurer lvl 1; as far as I’ve experimented with it, not even low DOT from lunara makes it worth more than free drinks. There’s no damage little enough that the mana you get is worth more than the hps you lose…
Li Li’s Jug of 1,000 Cups ult. It’s cancellable, doesn’t heal a lot even on full cd, heals slowly over time, 1 hero at a time, has travel time (it can’t quickly switch from one ally to another). Frankly, I want back the serpent shooting a blinding cloud, and maybe a passive talent that gives ult cd reduction on passive too, so li li’s at least healing well out of combat if her burst is bad.

Vampiric touch lvl 1 on Ana: way too weak for the selfish pick. The other 2 talents are better even for defending ana.

Malthael passive talents. He can’t reliably put the mark on enemy heroes from safety until lvl 20 (and even then, final curtain is a zoning tool). It looks to me like massacre (7) + Mortality (16) do more damage not only burst, but also if you average it over a certain time, than the supposed sustain damage Black Harvest (4) + Memento Mori (16). He’s not viable with any build, since they gave him a bit of everything that even with talents doesn’t turn him into one of best duelists, a burst assassin or a hard to kill drain tank. Either remove his e and make him unescapable if he marks you once, make him able to isolate an enemy like Modekaiser from LoL or Mars from Dota2, or…give him a decent ult, where the enemy hero takes increasing damage as long as it stays near you, making it a zoning tool (enemy has to go x range away to escape the ult, otherwise they take increasing damage forever).

Blaze: the whole hero is unfun to play, but if I were to point at some unfun talents, New habits lvl 1 (an unstoppable that comes in too late and with too big a cd), and both ults (a defensive ult means enemy controls the pace, and the other one only gets fun at 20).

Kel thuzad’s lvl 7 ‘ice cold’. The cooldown reduction on spike is nice, but if they want to sell it as a ‘become a duelist’ talent, the spike should auto detonate when enemy is hit into the spike/ reduce its remaining timer to little (0.5s?) to guarantee enemy eats the explosion if no one saves him. Half the power budget of the talent is wasted on grass damage.

I guess I could do this forever.

4

Sonya should have Nexus Blades at level 20, other heroes had it, she should have it too.

5

The Lost Viking’s level 4, 7, 10 and, 16 talents basically only have one pick choice, which especially for level 7 is a real shame since the idea of having 2 basic ability picks is really quite a cool mechanic just one of them is boring and unviable. Level 4 has the problem of it’s a sabotage being worthless and eric’s other level 4 pick being practically necessary to keep him alive in lane. Level 7 spin to win is too good, I personally wouldn’t mind if they nerfed the damage a bit viking’s winrate is strong right now anyways, Level 10 alternative is longboat, enough said and Level 16’s charge has really strong synergy with spin to win since the stun basically guarantees hitting all 3 and a pseudo surround, if level 7 was less important I think other choices could be viable since they don’t have the same direct synergy with spin. Level 20 is also boring but I think that’s mostly due to the fact the level 10 is set in stone, reduced respawn timers MIGHT be picked if recall wasn’t always picked and longboat raid’s level 20 is really strong as is. I think level 10 could get fixed by nerfing recall cooldown or buffing baseline boat damage

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Unfortunately, even after the buffs, whitemanes scarlet wrath is still not worth picking. The talent tier is just to important of a power spike to take a quality of life talent.
The stacking at 1 still isnt competitive either but its its not throwing to pick it now. It kinda has the same problem as scarlet wrath.

I kinda feel like both these talents should just move to another talent tier.

4 Likes
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your going to be taken a year for that wave clear with holy fire only procs off heroes not creep attacks, your better off using holyshock if you want to wave clear. holy fire is only really for stealth heroes and aba mines thats really about it.

i prefer the holy shock not for the damage but for the heals as well, it helps with uthers long cds on healing and allows him to get some heals off on himself before he needs to use it on an ally and wait 12 secs, plus that extra armor helps out. on top of it getting a big buff at lvl 16 with beacon of light you can really punish people that go for uther its got some good combos while pursuit and holy fire don’t have much to combo or combine with later game not making them that great i don’t see many people use these with uther on top of uther not being played much with anyways.

2 Likes
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Whenever i think, “There’s no way I would pick that talent” i would go to Heroes profile to check out how bad it really is. Often i am humbled when i see that the talent has both a good pick rate and win rate.

Whilst i agree with all the points youve made, Holy shock is a good talent with good level 16 synergy, Holy fire is the talent with the best win rate (and comparable pick rate so as not to skew the stats).

I agree with your point about level 7 talents. I play pretty much just QM and in games with little CC, the level 7 row becomes junk.

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I know Kerrigan is (as far as I’m aware) got a 50% winrate but I would like a little something more for her so she increases her shield up time withought missing out on fury of the swarm at lv 1. I personally just feel like shes either a borderline bruiser when he shield is maxed out or more squishy than zeratul - even when that’s fundamentally untrue

and my god please please please can we have a talent to give Maiev some sustain I want my bruiser build I got going on with her to be more manageable

10

Sorry but Eager adventurer’s mana restoration is just to slightly compensate for not taking the free drinks or serpents free mana talents. the main draw for this talent is extended cooldown reduction for your trait and it works with other trait talents as well as lets go which benefits from your traits cooldown reduction. Jug of 1000 cups on the other hand is by and away the more popular heroic. and for good reason. its a massive increase to your healing per second while its active. it can pretty easily bring a hero back to full hp with a full cast and its upgrade doubles up on the healing rate.

Li Li essentially has 4 build paths I think. 1 is trait build which is good for when you are under direct fire consistently by giving you more cooldowns and armor and movespeed.

  1. is full heals where you put everything into your Q and take jug this will probably net you the best healing rate for anything li li can do but leaves her utility lacking.

  2. is the serpent sidekick build with water dragon. Nice for giving li li more control over her healing

  3. is a build based on maximizing mistweaver where you take a mix of Q and serpent talents.

2 Likes
11

I generally advise people flip your heroics there. Q builds around cdr and li li can’t Q during Juggs, so there are dips in her healing when she uses it. Water dragon can make space to stall for more time for the next Q to come; Serpent build is active once it’s own, so it still functions while Li li channels juggs.

Otherwise, I will echo the sentiment on the other two build options :+1:

2 Likes
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Jug is the easier to play around with heroic in general. if you aren’t positioning yourself properly you might just waste the water dragon slow on hitting just a tank. It is something I swap into for fun sometimes though on Q builds.

13

I don’t know who you’re playing with, but all my team mates constantly insist on attacking clones, even when it’s obviously not Nova. People will stop whatever they’re doing to attack a clone, including finishing of an actual low health target.

Just like they obsess with chasing Murky. (Or his obvious fake eggs.)

3 Likes
14

Oh, same. I’ve seen that strategy destroy my team more times than I’d like to admit. I’ve tried Nova though, and it failed more than half the time, unfortunately. :rofl:
Maybe I played it wrong, but the heroes profile stats also don’t look too good for the clone spam talent.

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15

There are some niche situations where you might want to attack fake heroes usually for quest stacking. But some heroes like Malthael can also get extra healing by tagging a nova or samuro clone with his trait. In general though you do want to be going after real heroes instead of the clones. I’ve also seen entire teams dump all their heroics on top of an abathur clone for no reason before so that also happens.

16

Gul’dan doesn’t have that poor of talents, just a few outliers

Echoed Corruption: Now also increases the maximum number of stacks of Corruption from 3 to 4 upon completion

Bound by Shadow: Fel flame also deals an additional 75 damage to heroes effected by corruption.

Rain of Destruction: Increase the size of the meteors by 25%, damage increased from 165 to 180.

Deep Impact: Increase the damage to heroes by 25% as well.

Alarak

Overwhelming Power: Reduce either the healing from 50% to 35% or reduce the attack speed from 40% to 30%

Dissonance: decrease the cast speed of Discord strike by .125 seconds.

Pure Malice: Reworked: Increase maximum sadism from takedowns from 30% to 60%, increase sadism from takedowns from 3% to 5%.

2 Likes
17

Do all current talent picks work? I know most if all heroics work but I don’t know if they’re working correctly and I swear someone is picking better talents than me on certain heroes but I don’t know how or is the recap system not tracking statistics properly?

18

Nope.

19

Just pick Sonya and wipeout all the minions.

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