No need to, you can send it here, replays aren’t that problematic as far as I know, even if its done to prove a point.
Just make sure you do preformatted text on the link if you cannot post links and such.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16-vUuytkhEhX_4q5U2DMEFF68zTBaVyI/view?usp=sharing
Imperius and Muradin are Cho and Gall from a game where the other team banned Cho… Again, these two ONLY play Cho and Gall when it comes to storm league, and are close to hitting master. Just think about that while you are watching this.
This game was from, I think, diamond 4, and Cho (Imperius) was the one who uploaded it.
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The thing that an algorithm doesn’t account for is when 5 enemy players (of the same skill) play amazing games while maybe only 2 players on your team play well. This can turn into a bad loss
On top of that it doesn’t factor in that your team also got out drafted so you were already at a disadvantage so it looks even worse
Just because you’re plat doesn’t mean you can’t have A game that you play at master quality or bronze quality
People seem to think a plat gold or whatever play should always be performing at that level. It’s just not the case
The worst golfer can get a hole in one.
When threads have used hotslog mmr values for show[ing] ‘forced matching’ they don’t acknowledge or account for the flaws in the system: they assume/declare it has to be true
“the range itself is not inaccurate in terms of an independent gauge.”
Actually, that is a problem with Hotslogs: it is inaccurate in terms of an independent gauge. There used to be more site parsers a few years back (when HotS was more popular) and by comparison to other independent gauges.
Some of the unspoken context is topics like these is that I used to point at all these other sites that people could use that weren’t Hotslogs. The reactions aren’t “oh, here’s another tool that I can use to check my conclusions” it’s “oh, hotslogs is all we have” The issue of limited understanding is that people don’t consider how to broaden their perspective and consider there are things they didn’t even consider. Which is kinda self-evident that they don’t consider what they don’t consider, but people don’t consider that 
That’s part of why all those other sites died out: people wouldn’t acknowledge that they exist, had better tools, and were otherwise content to dwell in the “all we have” rut.
While the effect of what you want to interpret from my words – people being ‘lazy and not wanting to improve’ – is a consequence of what I’m spelling out, but it isn’t what I’m saying.
I don’t expect people to write scripts; I expect people to realize there is stuff they don’t know, so when those that do offer those extra tools or theories or proofs, they should be willing to consider them. The point of the anecdote about the poster who did write the script is he saw all that ‘effort’ and thought it had to be true because he put effort into it. Jumping up and down takes effort, but that doesn’t mean someone is going to spark their campfire by doing it; it takes the right kind of effort to get the desired results.
Part of the issue I take in these topics is the extent to how far claimers deny relevant outlets and information. There are other things they can consider, but they don’t, and they refuse to do so. To them, it’s not about having the tools to ‘prove’ that something is what they think, they think they’re already right, and since it’s “obvious”, of course people can only agree with them, otherwise they have to be [fanboi,whiteknight,etc].
The dialogues aren’t about how to do more, its about already being content, and acting like it is good enough. So sure, if people aren’t willing to know more, they can’t improve their position, but it is a different matter the extent to how they try to fight to rationalize their ignorance and blame others to suit that justification.
From my education experience, when teachers taught math, they placed more weight on students showing their work, and not so much on the ‘correct answer’.
Topics like this only care about what they think is the ‘correct answer’ and pretty much don’t want to show their work. They deny other tools, theories, proofs, etc etc because they dont’ want to show work; they deny how “proof” works and simply declare that they are right because they think they are right. The system of conduct they use for themselves is one that doesn’t work for any deviation to that expectation, so they have to deny alternatives exist.
IF something is true, people should be more than willing to consider more ways to demonstrate that. But, in effect, these sort of topics are scared and refuse to know more. Since their perspective relies on effective ignorance, considering something more than they claim would indicate that they are ‘wrong’, and people can’t allow themselves to be “wrong” otherwise… they’d stop looking for things to blame. If the concern is flaw → change, then wanting to ‘prove’ that is the foremost way to indicate that change should happen.
However, if people look through how these topics aren’t conducted, it’s not about ‘proof’ it’s about victims thinking themselves so much better than a malignant universe has to be holding them back. It’s a a sort of ‘sunk cost’ fallacy that they’re so invested in themselves, they won’t consider variations or assists to their cause: it has to be their way, or everything is against them.
That sort of conduct is why undermines the ‘probability’ that their ‘feel’ of the matching is correct. Everyone is biased, but a key part of competence is understanding the influence of that bias, and trying to consider a perspective that offsets that, rather than strictly adhering to the bias.
A key distinction in that is “science” for all it’s power and awesomeness is a form of confirmation bias. But the value of science (or the proof) comes from showing work, and having a review that tries to offset the bias. People don’t need a big all script or program or whatever, but they should be willing to have that alternative perspective, instead of fighting against any and everything else.
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I think you write an awful lot there-- And maybe convoluted your point as a result.
“There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don’t know, we don’t know.”
Donald Rumsfeld tried the brand of logic you describe, but history is not going to remember him fondly for it.
If those tools “died” it was because people didn’t find them effective for w/e reason. HotSLogs is still here-- despite an accidental full data wipe-- years later due to having sufficient support/interest.
I completely agree with this, but I think you are on the wrong side to be making this statement.
I agree with the concept, but again, I think you’re on the wrong side to be stating this. Being close minded is basically a prerequisite to becoming a white knight-- especially when it comes to “taboo” subjects such as “forced 50%.”
See, here’s the thing, the OP has TWO posts (to be fair, idk if this is an alt account), and by comparison, several of the forum regulars have WELL over 4000… I would EXPECT the OP to behave in a way that someone with two posts would behave. I would not expect someone with 4000+ posts be so thin skinned that they become insulted the moment someone SUGGESTS that their view of the world could be even slightly off.
Now, I did read the rest of your post-- But I have to disagree at the base level, which is where to lay the blame of ignorance. Yes, the OP, and others like him, are responding emotionally to a perceived wrong doing-- But I want you to take a look at the responses to anyone who DARES suggest that match making isn’t “perfect.” In this thread alone, I have had two different forum regulars tell me EXACTLY what I can go do to myself in none-too-polite terms (lol).
Now, you tell me, do forum regulars like that want intelligent discourse? No. They do not. And that’s the bottom line. That’s the culture the white knights have fostered here; ignorance. You can’t expect relative newbies to the forums to behave in a way that the veterans will not.
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I know the feeling. While I don’t believe there is a forced 50% win rate I do feel like there is sometimes. Now I get the idea that in an ideal world we would have a 50% win rate cause of even match ups…
But like most season I normally get about a 15 wins above the 50% mark (IE 35 wins to 20 loses). Then I get a series of games that get -150 to -195 rank points until I eventually get down to a 50% win rate and the next 15 wins take 45 matches.
You’ve been sucked into white-knight quicksand. Your words have become soft and inaccurate. You aren’t going to chance their minds, so just keep your own resolve.
Also, any meaningful discussion is impossible at this point. Multiple account data is needed, but such requires IP-addresses. This will never be made available for public.
If the thesis of my post is that people aren’t considering stuff that could affect how they see the issue at hand, then I’m going to try to back that claim by trying to explain that stuff.
When people don’t understand it, that makes more stuff I need to write to offset misunderstanding, and then try to re-elaborate. Since you keep projecting misconstrued takes on ‘my point’ and keep trying to box things into two simplified ‘sides’, then that’s length I have to write to rephrase my ‘point’
What you call by ‘brand of logic’ per Donald Rumsfeld is a similar sentiment expressed by Isaac Asimov, Stephen Hawking, and a number of others. They are remembered for those sentiments, and some of the works they made are examples of showcasing that.
In regards to your “regular forums” list; it seems you’re put off more by select examples, and use that as rationalization to suit generalization everything else into a limited view of two sides. Several regulars do post outlets on trying to convey more information on the matter esp since, as has been pointed out, the usual reaction to these forced 50 topics is a repetition of the same things.
And frankly Vail, the internet is a massive source of information; I can ‘expect’ people to use it as a means to actually try to be better informed; any number of these newbie accounts or alts repeating the same song-and-dance could do a few google searches (on several games because it gets repeated elsewhere too) and they could phrase their points as inquiries (do other people experience things like this?) requests for more info and self-improvement (what can I do, because it seems like my matches are forced?) Simple put: there are other reactions people can have, other tools for information designed to help, but the usual outcry is just the same thing.
And functionally, since a number of people only see their world (and options of viewing the world) into two polarized opposites, the limitations of that perspective seems others that don’t agree with them as hostile, and then chooses to read things as being ‘offended’ and a number of negative reactions, esp if they get ‘swarmed’ by “knights” that all show a disagreement with the post.
If posters wanted an ‘intelligence’ discourse, then they would incorporate perspectives that utilize just a little more proof than a repeat of that same thing. While the reactions to topics can indicate that “so many people have the same thing happen” that’s generally a reaction by people that don’t actually know how wide the playerbase actually is.
In a couple of other type of topics, I have run some matching percentages based on Heroesprofile’s available data, and some things surprise people how ‘normal’ aspects of the matching can be. The downside of community forums is that it is easier to complain, so it can give a higher saturation of experience than what people actually see. The downside however, is that if lurkies see so many reactions, they assume it is prevalent and use that as fuel to leave/hate the game.
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Ye the one and only entertainment you will get in your pathetic life. You properly just a LOL fanboi that sits here and waste your time on game forum of a game you dont even play. So do us all a favor and get lost and troll on LOL forum insteed.
I hate LoL. What now, Forum Main.
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You’d get mad whether the OP or someone else defended the original post. It wouldn’t make a difference
My god not you too -.- Forum have really become a dumbster now. Time for me to just leave while my sanity is still intact.
You would properly get mad yourself if 6 trolls keep on useing the whiteknight/fanboi card everytime you post lol.
Imagine waking up to this only years after the majority of the playerbase.
At a certain point, volume =/= substance. Brevity is the soul of wit, as Shakespeare says.
You surprise me… I didn’t think you would double down on this-- especially because the reply would have been so obvious: we never found those WMDs in Iraq. lol
I was using “forum regulars” because I was trying to be extra polite. The posters in question are apparently offended when you bring up their post history and suggest it shows heavily repeating bias.
I don’t disagree. People COULD do those things, but even people with +4000 posts don’t do those things, so why would you expect someone who is already angry about how they have been treated (in-game or otherwise) to behave in a more rational manner?
Generally true, sure… But with the way the game is now, it generates a certain level of frustration due to things, which in other games, would be more within the player’s control. To deny that as a reality, only fuels the resentment.
You mean that the forum is only a small fraction of the player base, and that the people coming here to post on topics like this have a predetermined notion of how things should be? I would argue that this is true of any opinion posted here.
Any survey, or poll, will always only be a fraction of a given population. The fact that so many similar negative views are expressed here on the topic of matchmaking is because of the environment here.
Just for example, if you go to Fox News, you can be sure that most commentary will favor conservatives. You go to CNN, and it will likely favor progressives. That’s because of those environments.
These forums here, HotS, are not conductive to the dialogue you are suggesting.
I’ll tell you what, if you find this “fuel,” feel free to share it. I’d like to leave this game too, but its too addictive I fear.
Welcome in game Where YOUR INDIVIDUAL rank determine OTHER 4 players…
SAD STORY bro
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Late response here to a side-topic; but I actually said players should improve to the point at which they become limited by their mental or physical attributes, and I don’t think your example contradicted me there. I would further temper my assertion by suggesting the speed in learning is also so influenced.
I actually have really enjoyed reading this thread personally, and found it very entertaining. I don’t think either side has really made their point strongly enough though to convince the other.
Also, which is the most healthy set of beliefs regardless of which side is correct? On the one hand believing that you are undertaking an activity in which you have no control is defeatist if you are carrying on playing and takes focus away from your personal improvement. On the other hand, solo playing a 5man ranked game solo, regardless of any forced matchmaking, is in itself is giving control up and disadvantaging yourself.
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Well - on one side you have members of the Blizzard staff who directly work on the game code saying nobody is forced to win or lose.
On the other side, you have lunatics signing up to the forum and claiming Blizzard is forcing them to lose, with zero proof besides a loss streak after they won a couple matches.
The arguments aren’t exactly in balance in terms of credibility.
You are conflating the argument, Hoku.
If I say I think some of my losses are forced and it feels like the quality of my teammates decreases after a string of wins, that doesn’t mean I think all my wins are legit. Naturally, the logic would follow that some of my wins are also forced.
I’ve had wins that were so easy after a string of losses that I felt bad for the enemy players. Clear and obvious disadvantage for them. Often my team will remark that it must suck to be the enemy team and that we wouldn’t wanna be them instead of saying GG.
A lot of people on these forums do that.
“No one ever wanna talk about how they think their wins are fair! Only the losses are unfair!”
Nah dude, a good percentage of my wins feel unfair.
Why does my match history look like this:
Win
Win
Win
Win
Win
Win
Win
Loss
Loss
Loss
Loss
Loss
Loss
Loss
Loss
Instead of:
Win
Loss
Win
Win
Loss
Win
Loss
Loss
Loss
Win
Win
Loss
Win
Loss
It’s always large win streaks followed by large loss streaks. Highly suspect, dude. Like the system is very simple and can’t adjust for minute and detailed variances.
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