[3rd June Patch] Tracer Changes Discussion Thread

General Discussion
21

Yeah I can go over Parting Gift now. I will preface this by saying that post-rework, it very very rarely competes with One-Two Punch but to say it’s never worth taking even now is simply wrong.

So before the rework her level 4 consisted of Is That a Health Pack?!, Parting Gift, and Untouchable. Is That a Health Pack?! was and is probably her most niche talent and in my humble opinion has never been able to hold a candle to the other talents it competes with - both post and pre-rework - so we can scratch that one off.
To throw some of those numbers you love to crunch so much right back: IIRC Untouchable only provided more value than Parting Gift if you maintained a minimum of 7 stacks which is simply to unreliable an inconsistent. Also, Tracer has always been about burst damage over AA so why take an AA talent when you can take burst?
Which brings me to Parting Gift. Here’s the real value that you get out of it, and this is true both before and after the rework: You can do more than two melee’s worth of damage (30 more damage at level 0 and almost 100 more damage at level 20) in a fraction of a second. Anyone who’s played enough Tracer can tell you that timing is EVERYTHING. Spending just half of a second too long in the back line can mean your death. With Parting Gift you can dish out immense burst before anyone (outside of the pro scene) has even the smallest chance to react. This is also why I always took Bullet Spray over Ricochet because completely removing the melee animation in place of instant damage is massively valuable (as a side, I more often take the armor reduction talent now because it’s necessary to achieve the 100-0 she had before - and with the tower changes, Ricochet gimps your ability to fight anywhere near towers).

So, while I agree that there are plenty times when the Recall bombs damage is overkill, I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have secured numerous kills over the course of my time playing Tracer with Parting Gift. I’ve even stuck a bomb on one enemy for a kill, then - with melee on cooldown - blinked in front of another low hp target and used the Recall bombs to secure a second kill. It happens very often.

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22

Oh snap! You called one of the tracer mains on the forum out. Once you make the guide you and the other tracer mains can compare why you go certain builds

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23

For me, its a whole different story, the problem with Parting Gift was simply it was a complete hit or miss and during competitive you pick her as hypercarry, that’s really what was her, nothing less nothing more when it comes to pre-rework, this is why you picked Untouchable instead of parting gift, just for that role specifically which is what made her even still have a competitive usage until tass got completely dumpstered from the support category with the rework, even without parting gift you burst was fine.

Parting Gift was in this constant debate of being the best but it always proved itself being the worst of all, if the highest tiers constantly imply its good when its value output goes to being critically low to none they yeah I can go to the assumption its bad and should not be considered as an option, and it has been the same case with my usage with it, I’ve got overall better output in games from picking Untouchable than Parting Gift ever did for many reasons, a talent that could occur every 30 seconds, that it’s either a complete miss or does nothing because the target was already dead from Quantum Spike Pulse Bomb.

Currently where she is right now she’s completely sustain sustain focused and very little on the burst side, and her niche as a dive burst has been hard nerfed, especially when the fact that dive was not her only shtick at all, it was just one thing she did out of many things she can do, they are pushing her into this sustain playstyle hence the Pulse Bomb nerfs in the first place, and is why you pick One Two Punch to charge bomb faster, this alone is one reason you do not pick Parting Gift because One Two Punch gives exactly for that specific playstyle she’s being enforced into.

Just like this talent she has other tiers of “its good but the others are better”, take Get Stuffed as an example being overall broken and still is a strong talent in general.

Also Bullet Spray literal only mere existence is waveclear at best, that’s about it, but you get far better more value out of Heavy Handed, if you pick that talent alone for waveclear then something went wrong in the draft in the first place.

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24

Don’t know what all this fuss is about. Parting gift is outrageously strong if you know how to use it. The bombs always come out of your character in the same directions. If you recall in the right spot, you can always send a bomb where you want it to go.

Just recall slightly north of the person you’re attacking.

25

Because when people advocate this same exact talent for the past 4 years in being the best talent in level 4 while again and again people confirm it being ineffective in general then yeah, there’s going to be a fuss about it.

When HGC players say its the best at the same time literally makes those same players considered best of the best miss kills or literally get no value out of it because the target was already dead, then yeah, I’m gonna make a fuss about it.

Talent is super niche and damage is inconsistent and is set on a long delay for a character that is currently forced in a sustain play style. Next.

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26

Here’s my final take: If you use Parting Gift properly, it has the potential to be more consistent than Untouchable. Do you think it’s possible that you tried it, didn’t like it, and then didn’t ever give it a fair chance? I think that’s likely the case because I am telling you as someone with much more time on the hero than you, that the value is absolutely there (which by the way I facepalmed when I realized I just didn’t have game modes checked under stats. With everything but AI and Brawl checked I have 998 games played with a 57% w/r). And consider that Untouchable provides ZERO value as soon as you die. Whereas Parting Gift can provide value every 30 seconds no matter what. Provided you know how to land it 100% of the time- which I can.

I’ll also whole-heartedly disagree with the statement that “now she’s completely sustain sustain focused and very little on the burst side”. She has been given MORE sustain which is exactly what she needed, and her previously OP as hell burst has been reigned in, but she is still through and through a burst hero. Why do you think Get Stuffed exists?

And finally, I said I take Heavy-Handed 9/10 times now as it is necessary for the 100-0 but before Heavy-Handed was a thing, Bullet Spray removed the animation time between pressing W and the damage from melee going through. If you can’t see the value you there then you are a $%!1 Tracer. And I only get rude now because of your “Next” comment at the end. Don’t get pretentious, especially when someone with more knowledge than you is saying you’re wrong. If you think the damage is inconsistent than you don’t know how to land the bombs consistently and therefore you are not worth arguing with.

Also who are you to be the authority on all instances of Parting Gift’s usage in HGC? Did the pros take it every single game even though, as you say, it NEVER secures kills and is ALWAYS overkill damage? Maybe you’re the one missing something here and should open your damn ears instead of insisting your ill-conceived notions are scripture.

27

Argumentum ad populum without even citing the evidence.

Next.

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28

Because the OP is a close-minded narcissist who uses retrocausality to argue in circles about something he has already made his mind up about.

@Sami, Word of advice; just stick to posting the patch notes when they come up.

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29

There’s nothing calculated about burning 3 blinks to dive a target that still has its escape. Don’t worry about Phase, he can carry just fine.

Imgur

I will dive for a kill, I will not dive for a 40% chance of a kill.

So far I have a 1.9% difference in win rate since the rework. And it may not be related.

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30

I’m willing to admit I’m wrong, but I’d also like to see a sample size of more than 60 games.

31

I did my own take of testing myself and I found more success with Untouchable than Parting Gift in the wrong go, while its true that you get no value out of it if you die it still was her better go to simply because of her previous, she was pretty much hypercarry, that’s really it, that alone with Tass and that role was the main reason why Untouchable is the best option.

In hypercarry role you obviously should not die at all if you play her rather correctly otherwise you are in for a complete ride as a result for the rest of the match, the sustain multiplier from Untouchable with other AA talents and Ricochet and Tass made her sustain over the roof and could fill herself up, being overall problematic to deal unless she get heavily countered.

This is false, Bullet Spray never removed the tick delay of the damage impact at all, the same time it takes for it to hit is no different than Bullet Spray does.

I even went ahead and tested it right now in try mode, no difference in delay, only provides AoE impact. (on top of the fact has jankiest thing like if there’s a minion in front of a hero you get 6% charge instead of 12% but that’s not the point here)

I specified in the thread it’s about 0 - 2 kills average out of all the takedowns, some of these kills that were meant to be secured ended up just simply being lost with the Recall as an attempt to finish them off.

Also I’ve gone too far, with this and I sincerely apologizes, no really, I should not went with the “next” sassy comment and I should take full responsibility.

Also I’m doing just fine with her just as much as the next person is, high winrate too in general even past the rework through my own testing.

In overall, this is what I’ve found out for her, her best playstyle is complete pulse bomb spamming and this decision making of “use pulse bomb now” or “keep it for a finisher move”, but in general the reason the sustain play style is because of the Pulse Bomb overwhelming nerf in numbers that requires Heavy Handed to even reach similar but not close burst value in the first place.

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32

That screenshot is sketchy AF. Level 150 tracer but only 60 games? Show your filters for all modes except brawl and AI, otherwise It just looks like your manipulating the filters to give yourself the highest winrate possible.

33

Look guys!

https://imgur.com/VR0uFjv

Marvel at my 98% winrate on Sylvanas!

34

At this point we’ll have to agree to disagree. I have gained consistent value with parting gift across 1000 games.

When it comes to Bullet Spray, let me be a bit more specific. Let’s say you dive, and W>E instantly. If you do not have bullet spray, the damage from melee will sometimes not go through. I have tested this extensively. If you Recall before her hand drops down on to your target, there is no melee damage. Bullet Spray eliminates that. I’ll take the blame for being too vague on that point. I’ll also admit that is a very niche scenario but as someone who spends 90% of my time diving in with a W>E just to poke and mess with my opponents head, I can tell you that it was a consistent enough problem that I see Bullet Spray as more valuable because of it.

Lastly, I’ll post and then at the end of the month I’ll post a Tracer Guide Video (Going out of town until the 20th otherwise it’d be up in a few days) but since we’re all flexing our Tracer stats here you go:

https://imgur.com/a/Q4JQ0ZS

And so you know I’m not pulling so AI trickery:

https://imgur.com/a/1OFCMMX

Yes it covers most of the stats, but Avg Takedowns wouldn’t be exactly the same if I was checking different boxes.

Smaller values/numbers of games are less reliable, as each additional win or loss has a lesser and lesser effect on the w/r.

For instance, Phase’s 60 games means each win or loss effects his w/r by a whole 1% whereas for me each game only changes it by 0.001%

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35

Chrono Triggers is such a cool talent… that only works with one other talent and a couple of heroes on her team.

Anyway, I don’t think her sustain was ever an issue. It makes no sense to me, considering it’s only a lane buff on the rework, at best. She is still fragile and easily poked out by any other ranged, where she only gets that leech at any value if she’s nonstop attacking. If you don’t like playing against her, pick an actual ADC and throw a few autos at her.

She still has weird talents, and some of them are interesting, but overall she is still massively weaker than before, particularly on Recall’s massive delay nerf. Chrono Triggers needs to be altered to be more usable. Currently, it’s only worth picking if you took Locked and Loaded (+Untouchable), and really isn’t even good enough to take it then unless you have a reliable attack speed buff.

I stand by that they should’ve designed her to be like Overwatch, where her AA damage scales by distance, and would force her to get close to be effective.

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36

I appreciate your insights anyways and I’m sorry for one of my previous comments.

I’m though kinda still missing the point with Bullet Spray interaction, even if the animation plays it seems like it still procs past the recall point, even if you play the animation for just a slight tick as shown here:

37

That’s what the game is giving me for Storm league. It seems to be ignoring some because I know I played more than 60 SL games with Tracer. In total I must have played around 1300 games counting games played on my smurf.

But I’m ignoring stats for QM since I equally get clueless team mates or clueless enemies. And I honestly don’t remember if I ever played Tracer in vs A.I. but I wouldn’t count that either even if I did.

But I did do a rework analysis of you’re interested. My opinion hasn’t really changed since. Except I now need to test the Lvl 13 changes.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/phaseshifters-tracer-talent-analysis/37515/21

38

They may have fixed the recall bug and i missed it in patch notes by try this: take Get Stuffed and pop your bomb with Bullet Spray and then without. You’ll notice a difference in how fast the bomb pops.

39

I think the purpose was just to satisfy the complaints of QM players, who think her life gain was very impactful. You give them what they want, and it doesn’t make much difference. I probably would have done the same in their shoes.

40

Did this like 5 times for with and without Bullet Spray same results. :confused: