Thanks, but why did you want to get the bottom keep first and not just killing the immortal fast to get a full-shield immortal and then just push with it? Because the way you played it - while reasonable - feels a bit more stressful than just taking a full immortal.
Would it be really harder to push as 5 with a full-shielded immortal?
Is AA Valla really better than a Monster Hunter Valla even without acrobatic against immortal? I doubt it.
Okay, maybe I understand it now better… a simple push might sounds easier in theory, but when both teams are equal, wipes can be possible and enemys have a good amount of cc. So taking keep was a long time investment, when the core-rush might fail.
But tell me what would you do as the blue team in your opening question? Would you just act the same as enemys already did?
Yeah, since you guys weren’t a full stack it’s hard to really have everyone on the same page. But like I said, you guys end there without immortal, naz and dehaka can’t defend core and everyone is dead for at least 20 seconds when you get there. If you guys were a full stack tournament CCL team, HGC or whatever pro tournament you want, they end there 100%.
I’m familiar with some of these names and have considered them very competent, but the decision making shown here makes no sense, especially Valla who expects that one potential catapult in front the core to make a significant difference.
Almost like my game yesterday, full team attacking the keep with Malthael alive, while the rest of our team is 5 seconds away from respawning together. He is casting shade at them and eventually walks into Junkrat trap which he didn’t see, completely ruining the game where the other team would have otherwise backed off.
Yeah I just watched that. HUGE mistake by CM not ending there. They probably couldnt end with Lunara alive, but she suicided 1 v 5. Everyone dead for 40-50 sec is enough to end there, even with the core having 20 armor.
I am not sure to understand what is your opinion on the best macro move here. Is it what was shown in your video?
Personally, I would have gone for the core. But considering that in an uncoordinated team, it is not always feasible, I would have simply taken the Immortal and push with it bot lane. In your video, Valla push top lane and died and you got the bot keep. But then, you were 4v5 and you lost also Muradin which resulted in a 3v5 without level 20 for your team. You could hold 3v5 but I find it quite risky. Here, if they could have got one more kill they could have taken the Immortal which would resulted in something like top fort down for your team and some serious damage to the top keep.
If you were to take directly the Immortal, it would be less risky since you would still would have taken down their keep (you could push the bot keep while waiting for it to come) and still end with it in a 5v5 + Immortal in your side.
The best macro decision was, like Karabars and SamiSha said, taking down the keep straight away and stalling the obj enough to get to lvl 20.
Bad things happened like Valla going top alone and Muradin suiciding, but we were still ahead in the lvl 20 race.
I don’t recommend what Zeratul did, but he’s an extremely skilled player and in good hand with me and Anduin (Noah’s smurf).
A talent advantage is often overlooked, even when the objective seems free to take.
The best fights to take are in order 10v9, 20v19, 4v3, 7v6, 13v12, then 16v15 (when everything else are equal).
A 80% Immortal, 19v17 and 85% keep up without excellent structure burn, it would have been as risky to all in than going straight to the core top lane.
Even with the core going down to 30%, us getting wiped would mean they would’ve won the lvl 20 race, getting top fort for free, both camps, and a possible lead on the next Immortal race.
OK, this is just me, but Blue cannot win/contest the objective currently, they also most likely lose the game here. (it’s 2v5, 100% Immortal Inc, On last Keep and 2 level lead). But if they have ANY chance at all, Blue should push bot lane and defend any structures there until the Immortal and team is back, since that is where the immortal will go. Then. They would need to Defend and Hold Bot/Core. Top is pushing hard because no keep.
Blue can only win if they survive a bot 5 man push with 100% shield immortal (Max potential value for Red Team), meaning that the only other place an advantage can be gained is TOP LANE. If one guy simply pushes catapults to core, the Blue Team will need to defend on 2 fronts or ignore one by the time the Immortal gets to their bot keep, catas will be on core with zeratul (Who can jump out any time and go join team if anything goes wrong), immortal/team will kill core, Blue team loses definetly.
Alternatively, Red can all charge the enemy core and win because 3 are dead for at least 37 seconds, long enough for 5 people to kill a Core via Top Lane. Ending the game before the Immortal would. With Zera and valla at level 16, Core would die before the enemy team is up.
So for this post, I will assume the BEST macro move is the one that ends the game the fastest: Core Rush.
If you mean the one that uses strategy and the map to end the game by gaining an advantage and pressing it to it’s maximal potential value (Safest), then Pushing Top with Zera, finish Immortal as 4, Push bot and win game.
