No point teaching unless you get it in your mulligan anyway, druid hunter and pally can easily buff it out of range of early removal
I see it in the opposite way: itâs the coin that punishes oh my yogg.
If i have a quest, i just use the coin and thatâs it: i may have lost my coin, but the opponent lost their turn 1.
If such a minion on turn 1 existed and trogg couldnât be buffed, then i would agree.
Since trogg on turn 1 usually means that it will be buffed on turn 2, removing it as soon as possible is mandatory and with the coin it wouldnât be that hard
To remove it before it gets buffed 
Why not making trogg a minion that summons â1/2 tokens without effectâ instead?
Like ogremancer.
You can play them on turn 2, there isnât a rule that forces you to use it on turn 1.
Questlines are so easy and fast to complete, that we need a card like trogg.
Even if you play the quest one turn later, you arenât at a disadvantage.
The real disadvantage is playing against someone with the quest reward on turn 7
Since the 1/2 has an effect, it can be game defining
Letâs say i coin into a 2 mana spell to kill trogg.
Now the opponent still has a trogg on the board, which will spawn a new trogg later in the game.
If trogg has 5 health and i want to remove it with 2 spells that do 3 and 2 damage, i would end up with 2 trogg 1/2.
Thatâs why i think a good nerf would be to make it summon normal tokens and not another trogg
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I think it should be three mana and go back to its original form.
I really liked the card when it was released, but it was waaay over powered at one mana because it just went out of control in hunter and paladin.
But the bigger issue is availability of removal in all classes.
In my experience the card does the most damage to classes that only play a few spells, not the ones that are spell happy. The removal tools in spell classes frequently make trog useless, but classes that use buffs or minion based removal have a much more difficult time silencing or getting rid of the trogs.
2 Likes
Trogg could be changed to something more reasonable, aside from mana cost change.
If this minion dies without being honorably killed, summon a copy of it.
Similar to Korrak.
Nope.
That does nothing vs spells.
Trogg is supposed to hinder spell use, any sort of idea that doesnât do this is irrelevant.
Thatâs the definition of âworking as intended thoughâ. It hindered the spell heavy deck without crippling it.
Your spells took something like 5 power off the board and replaced it with 2 power, and made them easier to remove to an aoe.
Whatâs the problem here?
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The problem is in principle and that is that no card should disadvantage players going second whom are already disadvantaged. In this sense, OMY is also problematic, but, thatâs not the card this topic is about.
Feel free to disagree. Clearly, this is a value judgment
As long as a card disrupts spells, and coin is a spell, then that card will also disrupt the coin.
Saying that there shouldnât be spell disruption, because this is what you say, seems like a ridiculous opinion to me.
But as you said, itâs just an opinion, you may view mine as ridiculous as well.
I am a fan of tech. I realize thereâs a problem from a business perspective, however. Quests being so powerful, there was a need for T5 to design a card that can punish quest users. And so we have Trogg. In its initial form, it was a busted card. Right how, itâs no longer as busted (although, itâs still very good) as it was. But, my position is that players going second, something they have zero control over to begin with, and that are inherently disadvantaged to begin with, should definitely not be punished to the extent that the coin is no longer beneficial, but rather a liability.
Just lost a game to trogg because coin is a spell. Then of course on turn 2 they played a second trogg so couldnât coin and remove both of them.
Concede turn 4 as was a complete non game. That is exactly why this card needs to be nerfed into oblivion
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Well, expect to be told itâs on you and if you were a better player youâd know how to counter Trogg.
Oh I know. Should have played around it 
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Exactly: before they even nerf it, I had no issue with a turn 1 trogg followed by a turn 2 buff when I was playing mozaki mage
But when I play (now after the nerf) a normal deck and I start second, trogg + buff is basically gg (unless the opponent for some reasons trades everything I put on the board so I can survive till I have a big AoE)
In principle, no problems, since it is supposed to counter spell decks.
In reality, if they have a 5 health trogg on turn 2, itâs unrealistic for me to trade it with my 1 mana minion (which usually has 1 attack), so I have to rely on spells (and probably the coin), but they are detrimental.
Itâs probably not a all trogg fault, but the fact that there are good 2 mana plays to buff it. Without those it wouldnât be so problematic; since they make expansions in advance, it would be nice if things like this would be avoided.
Turn 1 trogg into +2+3 is a very strong opener.
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i mean, if you can remove the 4/5 trogg with a spell and your own 1 drop, and have it being replaced effectively by a 1/2 trogg, AND having now wasted a biscuit as well (the eternal problem of buff cards being an easy 2 for 1 for the opponent)⌠iâd say thatâs a win for you actually.
you are facing an aggressive deck, so itâs to be expected that their early plays are stronger than yours, but overall, he used 1 minion and 1 spell, you used 1 minion and 1 spell, and all he has to show, agressive wise, is a 1/2.
Thatâs why I say that people go crazy if they canât fully clear a Trogg, when they shouldnât. Removing a massive threat, and replacing with a 1/2, is still quite a good result for the slower deck, especially since this is suppossed to be the âtech cardâ against such strategies.
I am quite disturb by the above.
It maybe better if you list out the various scenarios and compare how many are problematic/solvable.
E.g.
How many class can buff a trogg.
How many class have a solution to trogg (unbuff/buff)
I donât think I have to list anything. Itâs as though you didnât read what I said. No offense. But, I stated my position, and itâs irrelevant (for me) as to which classes can buff Trogg, and which classes can remove it efficiently. My position is really only that the second player should not be further punished for being the second player. Minions and buffs and removal arenât really a part of my position. Itâs more that I believe in principle that which I say above.
And I believe, in principle, while strong T1 spells exist, an equally strong counter to them is required.
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What strong spells are you referring to at one mana?
If you have to ask, you havent been paying attention. For the last 6 months!
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Okay. So this is anti-quest again. Weâve been through this already.
Trogg is a card iâm so much more happy now summons onlys 1/2s instead of full 3/5s and 5/7s with ramming mounts clones.
Imo, itâs much better than before with the nerfs, and it vanished for a while, before coming back. Which makes me think itâs almost ready to die, but i still think it returning in face hunter is a sign the card, like a cockroach, would be fine to let die and be removed from the meta with t2 t3 dog biscuit ramming mount shenanigans. Itâs meant to be anti mage tech, but usually the t2 3/5 canât be removed by any t1 minions in a 50%+ wr deck other than the 2/1 parrot to trade 1:1, and 2 damage spells like second flame and handlock that the same decks have.
But i still think there would be many regrets, at least from non pally/hunter players if trogg was to go, or ramming mount went. In terms of gameplay they might not be power outliers yet, but in terms of non games, snowbally cards throughout history have been problematic to balance to 50% wrs. They win by extremely snowballing already winning states, while games imo were best as a back and forth, anyone could win situation. Not a, âI went first (or second with 1 mana 3/2 coin trogg) , had trogg, and ramming mount, and biscuit, and will now have a 70-80% odds of winning just off mulliganâ game. Where your turn 1 2/1 gets destroyed for a 3/5 â 3/3 trogg,
Your t2: 3/2 gets traded for free to a 5/5 ramming mount trogg. Your T3: 4/3 gets removed for free by a 5/5 ramming mount trogg. And your coin 5 mana removal summons another trogg, while they drop another rhino⌠Which youâre forced to pick between removing a rhino⌠and getting 4 troggs⌠or⌠Spending removal on a flip ping 1 mana 1/2 that duplicated 4 times⌠While still having a 5/5 immune while attacking, + 1/2 + 5/4 rhino on the board⌠⌠If you remove the rhino, you get a board of 5/5 + 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/2 while being on 17 hp⌠And probably loseâŚ
If you remove the 5/5 trogg⌠You get a 2/2 immune ram + 1/2 trogg + 5/4 rhino while youâre still at 17 hp. Itâs clearly not supposed to be the star of the show but it is a very annoying card in a already face zergy deck that just wants to hit you with as many 1/2s, 3/2s, and 5/5s, and piercing shots, and rhinos⌠and more face damage where the most entertaining part of the game is watching everything you play get removed for free while they ignore all minions to hit face. And sometimes still ignore your 5/5 minions even with free trades to hit faceâŚ
I think trogg was meant to incentivize counters to quest mage without nerfs, and ramming mount to make control hunters trade without just hitting face in theory maybe(?),
But they just get used to ignore face, trade for free, and limit interaction when they hit those snowball games. You canât balance snowball cards without creating non games, which makes a t1 snowball go first with buffs card problematic imo, even if itâs a much better spot as a 1/2 than a full 5/7 cloner imo.
I realize with the merry go round nerfs weâre just recycling past offenders down the end of the circle until they come back up again. but while 1/2 trogg is a whole lot more palatable than full 5/7 or 9/9 cloned troggs. I think iâd be happy if the gameplay loop just died.
The dog biscuit/ramming mount opener is just a really annoying opener that just creates too much one sided conditional value for a card to reach 50% wr.
The card would be fine to me to destroy imo
Even if iâm not a deck that gets countered by it. I just think trogg is a problematic card, trying to treat a symptom by adding a different symptom instead.
I think poison rogue is also a weird deck as a symptom of handlock beating generally many board based aggro and control decks, but losing to a deck that just hits face 20 times and garrotes, while ignoring all board interation.
Iâm not really sure what the proper answers are, but iâd rather the game be adjusted to stages in order to (idealy) try and find maximum enjoyment for everyone, while trying to avoid brute forcing trogg as a answer to handlock that just ruins everyoneâs day instead.
Nerfs:
Trogg:
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