They both come out at the same time in the same set, yet they do not work together. That is to say, any minion you generate with Dorian is not recognized by Joymancer.
Jepetto uses dolls.
Puppetmaster creates dolls.
Puppet Theatre creates dolls.
All in the same set.
Don’t work together. Seems crazy.
The first card says when you draw and the second one does not draw. Seems like it’s pretty straight forward, idk.
The question is
If you play a 1/1 minion generated by Dorian, why doesn’t Jepetto give you a copy of that minion ?
The flavor is off between these cards, I’m not denying that.
But the reasonning is that Jepetto just looks at the base stats of the cards, not including their buffs.
Which is enabling him to give you copies of minions that you hand/deckbuffed.
You can’t have him giving you copies of minions that got their stats reduces to 1 AND giving you copies of minions that got their stats buffed from 1.
They made the choice to allow the later since it’s the most represented throughout the game.
There are currently 21 handbuff cards in standard including 5 from the whizbang expansion, but only 2 cards that give you 1/1 copies in hand
They mean why doesn’t Jepetto generate the 1-mana copy Dorian can potentially create of a different third minion.
If I draw Eonar while Dorian is on the field, why doesn’t the 1-mana copy get generated again when I play Jepetto. It’s an 1-health minion that has been played.
Because you aren’t playing a 1/1 minion. You’re playing a created doll copy of a not 1/1 minion.
Exactly.
The question is why though? There is no indication that it shouldn’t work and no other interaction in the game that works this way.
For example, Pip gives you copies of 1 mana cards in hand and doesn’t look at the base cost. Why does Jepetto look at base cost?
Right, but Pip gets you copies of 1 mana stuff that isn’t really 1 mana.
Could be because hearthstone doesn’t have a graveyard. It probably just lists the 1-attack/health minions by name, and since the copy’s name won’t be included in this, it won’t generate it.
Yeah, this is how I understand it to work.
I guess I want to know WHY it works that way. It doesn’t feel consistent to me with other effects.
For example, Sonya say 1 cost card. But yet I can play a card that doesn’t have a base of 1 cost but only temporarily 1 cost and it counts.
Another example:
Salhet’s Pride draws a 1-health minion. It can draw a 1-health minion where the base is not 1 health.
So people like you don’t break it.
That’s not fair. I had a fun infinite meme combo in wild about to pop off lol
We know the reason. Coding it to allow more intricate interactions goes against their willingness to lazy around.
Pretty sure they just didn’t care.
As for Sonya and other effects, it could be coded to just check the amount of mana you lost when playing a card and act accordingly. Jepetto considering 1-costs that “aren’t” 1-costs would require more intricacy. It would require a graveyard system.
After rethinking it I don’t know. It’s possible that when minions die they don’t keep their altered stats or mana costs. That’s probably the reason.
Technically it doesn’t need a graveyard. It’s played, not died.
And that “graveyard of played” stuff exists. Mage uses it with stuff like Rewind for example.
It’s already there.
Yeah that’s what caused my edit. I thought that after typing that. Read my last paragraph, that might be it.
The real way to test this is to have the minion be in-play when playing the Jepetto and see if it generates it then.
On the design side, because it’s what is most likely to happen.
There are more cards that benefit from the interaction to work that way.
On the technical side, because Pip can check at the cards in real time, since they currently exist in your hand, whereas Jepetto can’t look at the history of enchantements that have been applied to know whether or not the final minion was or was not eligible to copy (this is an assumption)
But again, this is mostly a choice of opportunity. It will make sens with a larger combinations of cards for these interactions to work how they currently are, to the detriment of the others.
Including wild, there are only 7 cards that give you 1/1 copies in hand
But more than a hundred cards that can buff minions in hand/deck
It doesn’t, I tried that as well.
It 100% looks at base stats only.
I mean, I get WHY it doesn’t in terms of power. Because technically, like I was trying to do, you could get infinite Jepettos. You change your Jepetto to 1 cost 1/1 and it summons itself and you go infinite.
You are right. I tried to justify it but none of the reasons suddenly make sense to me.
It doesn’t consider health, otherwise it would work.
It doesn’t consider mana, otherwise it would work.
It doesn’t consider names, since that would be too much work to implement for future expansions and there isn’t a reason to make your life harder.
It can’t not consider not collectible cards, since it generates minis.
Yeah, I am lost. It might be a bug.
It’s not really hard to understand how it technically works.
Game registers, in any way, a list of the minions played.
Jepetto checks the list, and for each minion checks the base stats.
If base health or base attack of the minion is 1, you get a copy.
This is why it works with handbuffed minions.
Thematically it makes sense for it to work.
Balance wise i see why it doesnt
I tried this too btw took a bunch of games to even see if it would work or not xD
the reason is
consistency
spells or minions with effects checking played cards for its battlecry always used the base stats/costs
like grey sage parrot using always original costs
or galactic projection orb