What makes something "meta?"

Cybercide and I played a couple of friendly matches earlier. I said I don’t play meta decks then played control shaman and Scabbs combo rogue. They’re both from streamers but have never been more than a meme. They’ve certainly never made it to a VS or HSReplay report.

Do you consider YouTube memes meta or not? If so, what would make something be “non-meta?”

In short: Most Effective Tactics Available. First characteristic of a Meta os being widely used. If you’re playing a homebrew that is hella Effective but it’s only you playing, It can’t be meta.

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I’d say that “meta” deck is generally a deck that meets at least one and typically both of two basic criteria to some degree:

  1. High play rate. Typically it needs to be high enough that many opponents will recognize it based on the cards played, even if there are some tech choices/switches that have been made.
  2. High enough power/winrate to be a consideration that any other player trying to choose/build/refine a competitive deck needs to consider it.

The play rate consideration is probably the main feature. Something like Tickatus Control Warlock would probably be considered a meta deck solely through its play rate, since its win rate has actually been really bad except against a couple classes like Priest (so it sort of fits the power criteria as well, but only from that one particular matchup).

And sometimes even a deck that has a lower play rate can be strong enough or polarizing enough in its matchups that everyone needs to keep it in mind, even if it only occasionally appears. But even then it still needs to be a widely enough recognized option that other players would care about it.

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Meta would be decks that get tracked by meta report sites (vicious syndicate being the most popular).
Fringe meta would be decks that aren’t tracked on meta reports but you can find on HSReplay (500 games with at least 10 unique users I think is their criteria for listing).

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meme isn’t rly meta(not viable to climb…or the skill cap is so high that most players could not pilot it deep in)

meta alway start as homebrew among legend players…if they(legend player) see a certain deck(homebrew by 1 legend player) succeed many time over…they may be tempts to play test that legend player deck or even ask how they pilot it…said deck may spread if its something they find fun or has a solid win rate…once spread enough thats when it enter the meta game(which then spread to lower leagues)

Seems like the other thing you’re talking about is just called a netdeck.

If it’s hella effective, chances are it becomes the meta.

Be meta, my friend.

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Meta has metastasized a bit, but its origins were in the term “metagaming.” Meaning you’re not just playing against what your opponent does, you’re playing against what you expect your opponent to do.

When things become popular enough that seeing a class and the first turn play (or lack of play) is enough for you to guess the entire 30-card decklist, that’s meta.

People have focused on efficacy to determine what is meta, but it’s really what is most predictable.

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Mand has it exactly. When we say something’s meta we just mean it’s part of the metagame. If I put an ooze in my deck then I’m certainly expecting to face decks that rely on weapons, and the decks I’m looking to counter are definitely meta decks.

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It’s referring to how much impact said deck has on a competitive environment (the ranked ladder, tournament etc)

It goes a bit beyond(pun intended) that - the term metagaming IMHO came from RPGs, where OOC info of the player (deliberately) influences an RP character’s decision, which isn’t what RPG player should do: The player breaks the fourth wall to get an advantage for his ingame character. In reality, it’s done all the time. :stuck_out_tongue:
Meta as in Greek - beyond, beside or after (and a few more) is more of what you describe, the look past the border of the game itself and beyond the current game, anticipating further development and acting accordingly. The word itself has been used in various connotations for >2k years.
META as in Most Effective Tactics Available is, AFAIK, a backronym.

And yeah, me likes abbreviations, it’s a German thing. :wink:

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Memes are not meta, by definition.

META - Most Effective Tactics Available.

To be Meta a deck needs to statistically be one of the current best decks in the game.

Since many people rely on statistics now, those decks are also usually one of the most popular.

Lastly, the deck needs to have very few hard counters.

A Youtube meme simply does not fit any of these criteria since it’s just a deck played for fun… but not competitive.

Everything that isn’t meta is non-meta no?

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cards that allow you to draw your entire deck by turn 10

So a deck filled with draw but no win condition is meta?

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Mill rogue?
20 characters

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It really isn’t that simple. To be meta is not simply to be strong.

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It’s that simple.

If a deck is strong, it is meta.

That’s just the nature of Standard right now.

Power level and wr% of a deck are heavily weighted to defining the format.

It didn’t used to be like that but powercreep go brr

(i.e all meta decks right now are decently over 50% wr - stats).

Nah dude. There are probably more homebrews floating around achieving tier 1 or high tier 2 effectiveness that aren’t meta because they are unknow.

You ser a Guy playing Mage, maybe he’s playing Spell Mage or is the kind of masochist that plays Wildfire Mage. You’d never guess elemental Spell Damage Mage or something like that.

If they were tier 1 or high tier 2, they would be in the stats reported by VS/HSreplay.

If they’re not, it’s because they are overall weak decks.

Anyone can hit a lucky streak, a deck that performs well over 10,000 games is objectively tier 1 or 2.

Statistics remove all the mystery that used to enshroud HS back in the day.

I think you have a little too much faith in the process. Strong decks can fall out of favor and weak decks can see lots of play. For instance, control warlock gets played a lot even though it’s bad. People keep putting C’thun in their decks even though it probably lowers their overall win rate, etc. etc.