I need knowledgeable and experienced rogue players to explain to me what’s wrong with the class’ several cards (e.g. Academic Espionage, Tess, class card generators over e.v.i.l. lackey and vice versa, and especially Spectral Cutlass).
I find it quite hard to squeeze in the cards I need versus the cards I think I need or I want because there is alot to choose from. Currently I’m trying to make Tess Rogue work but it’s so hard. Cat feels extremely underwhelming, running double cutlass feels like a waste and you cannot boost them above 4 reasonably without putting cards like toxic or bucaneer. Tess can go horribly wrong sometimes and I don’t think having more than 1 Toggwaggle’s Scheme is feasible. Is sprint really that bad? Why almost nobody runs walk the plank? How can I overcome the lackluster card draw without putting Auctioneer? Why Espionage feels so good on paper but feels horribly awkward in practice?
I’ve looked at several decks and I found all of them to be lackluster. One in particular looked interesting but I don’t have the Collosus reborn card. SI:7 seems to have dropped in both play and win rates, why?
I’ve never been an avid rogue player. I haven’t even touched the class up until Frozen Throne expansion so my experience and piloting capabilities are severely limited. Can anyone help me out with staple and tech choices; which ones over which and maybe even craft suggestions?
The following are my own beliefs and do not reflect, or represent any kind of consensus.
most of the card generators the rogue class has to offer see play, usually in the same deck. EVIL Miscreant is an exceptionally good card that sees cross archetype play because lackeys are good in any deck, but the other card generators are weak in the decks that perform well.
I would think the reason why other card generators are weak, right now, in the decks that perform well is that rogue is fundamentally a tempo class. Generating cards is trading tempo for value. therefore, the archetype that Blizzard is trying to push (Burgle -_-) won’t work until we see a Classic & Basic set rotation, or complete overhaul (for Wild). or we’re printing cards that overpower the Classic & Basic set, which is probably a bad idea. (I’m neither for or against a Classic & Basic set rotation/overhaul.)
I’m ok with Burgle decks being strictly a ‘just for fun’ archetype. I don’t mind that Rogue is primarily a tempo/aggro class. there are 8 other classes I can play if I want something else.
see above.
the cards you need in the deck are not the cards you want. you’re pretty much always turning Rogue into a hybrid ‘new archetype’-tempo deck if you’re looking to climb the ladder.
Sprint is good in Miracle Rogue (dead archetype) and Oil Rogue (Kingsbane), but Blizzard has avoided printing miracle support since like… I dunno, Un’Goro? and oils are Wild. Prep got nerfed (i only found out about this recently), so its at best a 2 card combo to draw 4 cards for 5 mana. which is just awful for non-miracle archetypes, out of the question I would say because you sacrifice a natural draw. that’s like putting Patches into your deck without any other pirates.
unlike Vilespine, it’s not a great tempo card.
no idea what Burgle Rogue is trying to do.
if I wanted to make a standard control rogue (tempo-control), I would play it. but again, those types of decks are not what rogue wants to do.
I created my own Wild tempo-control deck, I’ve overcome my draw issues in some unconventional ways. no one has expressed interest in my ideas, so ill spare you. it’s not a burgle deck either. the only random element involves draw, and how my opponent chooses to interact with my board.
:p. you’re playing with a fractured deck, one card at a time. if you have a way to draw multiple cards after you play Espionage, it would be good. I think.
but if I want to be competitive, I don’t want to add random cards into my deck; I’m trying to make my deck as consistent as possible
decks featuring Colossus tend to be interesting. but if you’re looking for good decks, then I’m not sure what caught your eye, lol.
SI:7 seems like one of those staple cards that will always be good, just like Backstab. together, those two cards are like peas and carrots, but I think the reason you’re seeing a drop in SI:7 play rate is that tempo rogue is seeing a drop in play rate, this might help explain the drop in win rate.
edit: sorry, that’s not right.
When you track Tempo Rogue play rate to SI:7 win rate, SI:7 actually increases in win rate when Tempo Rogue drops in play rate. which makes sense because players that are not comfortable playing the deck will drop it, leaving the good players, or players that are comfortable playing the deck. And when Tempo Rogue increases in play rate, SI:7 drops in win rate.
Rogue before: draw many cards that do exact thing you want
Rogue now: pray for rng bulls**t to favour you
Sprint is expensive, Vendetta is better than Walk the Blank (because mana cost), Academic Espionage feels bad because RNG+card draw issues, Si:7 is fine still.
As others have said, if you want to play a good Rogue deck then play Tempo Rogue, Burgle Rogue can do some crazy stuff but it has no consistency and isn’t really good for laddering.
I’ve actually being having a lot of fun with Deathrattle Rogue and it should get a lot better with Sylvanas and N’Zoth added, Anka is crazy powerful , hitting Anubisath Warbringer and Deranged doctor is great now, but being able to bring them back as fully statted monsters with N’Zoth will be great. Might be a Rogue deck worth exploring when the event starts.
I am not a fan of rogue class in hearthstone, only play rogue during jade times and quest rogue (old quest), at the moment rogue has awkward position in the meta, they are not able to reliably kill quest druid due to their slow early game playstyle making druids have the upper hand post quest completion since rogue rarely makes a wide board, they don’t have tools to deal properly against quest shaman as well since shaman constantly flood the board every turns.
Their main prey highlander mage is right now not that popular, but they still have solid winrate to deal with combo priest the problem with priest is if the priest player is really skilled pilot they probably know how to properly read rogue’s hand and the rogue really need serious rng to stay ahead with card draws and lackey
Too many nerfs. Party Rogue was an exceptionally strong deck, surviving the Cold Blood nerf. Nerfs to 3 other cards proved to be too much limiting Rogue to a weapons heavy, aggressive, one dimensional strategy.
Too much Burgle focus. Some of these cards even conflict with each other (Cutlass, Stolen Steel, and Quest)
Mediocre Deathrattle support. The class cards are solid but not enough to fully build the archetype. There’s nothing good to do in DR Rogue before turn 3, so it starts to compete with Quest decks which are far more powerful. It might have been possible to build a hybrid Pirate DR deck, but the nerfs to Prep & RP made it impossibly slow.
Despite the somewhat above average winrate of aggro rogue on hsreplay I still seem to perform better in general with quest rogue. Aggro/tempo rogue just seems to get countered too easily by taunts, heals and too much relying on having myras to draw your deck. Rogue has some pretty decent cards, but nothing too broken like what other classes have where they kind of just win besides maybe like a early myras into nomi and they don’t have board clear.
I do feel like Rogue needs something else in it’s favor, either card draw a board clear or better deathrattle synergy they need something besides relying on burgle rng. Sometimes you hit the nuts and it feels real good but most other times you get unplayable garbage and just lose. Once I burgled a floops gloop against a quest druid, got a Collosus off cat and traded in all my minions into oasis surgers and played the Collosus on turn 5 or 6 to beat the Druid. 90% the time quest rogue would lose the matchup.
They killed this deck the moment they replaced the 1 mana cost discover a card from your opponent class to “give you one random thing and deal with it” plus taking out the DK card, literally before tess had some really good plays but now with the card drawing issues plus all the RNG involved that rogue has except it goes for deathrattle is horrible
I’m kind of kicking myself cause I jumped the gun and deleted the deck I had made, otherwise I’d link it here. The only time I could get a true Tess Deck to work was to lean hard into the tempo side of it. I ran one walk the plank, one contract, two vendettas, one raiding party (for hench and greenskin). The pirate that gives +1 to your weapon came and went a few times, depending; i normally used it or early tempo on the daggers rather than spectral buffing. I ran two preps and one sprint, and yes, it was a huge addition. Togg was used more for draw 3 for 0 after my espionage turn than he was for the legendary duo (although, with the discovery buff your mileage may vary). I cut scheme a long time ago as it only really helped me on my warrior matchups and, tbh, those are so annoying that I didn’t really care one way or another. I would rather take the coin flip of “early aggression wins” than the late game play against them. Helps the blood pressure. There was one shadowstep (honestly used more for Greenskin than Tess), and I loved, and still love, SI-7. I did dabble a little bit with a Nomi, Myra, and 1 Scheme package but, while working, it felt extraneous rather than integral.
I should add this got me to 5, which is all I ever try for if I do play ranked. Or, to be more clear, I don’t try for a rank but I ain’t gonna stab myself for a legendary push. Oh, and people will HATE you for a large spectral. … One last thought tho; with the amount of Zephyrs out there you’re gonna get Harrison’d and Oozed a LOT more than when I was using this deck.
I don’t think you need a degree in Rogue Tactics from the Uni of Hearthstone to see why Rogue is heavily tempo. Here’s why.
Their class cards are just… better. Better than what’s printed.
Yes. Spending your entire turn doing nothing is the same reason 10 mana drops like Colossus are never played normally.
Hench Clan Burglar is better. I have seen WtP run because it IS solid removal but you’d rather spend turn 4 developing board or stealing removal.
Nothing, really. Auctioneer is just a part of card draw for cheap classes, whether it be Druid or Rogue. Rogue has cheap cycle therefor Auctioneer is better, it doesn’t have much draw after that.
Randomness. Your cards could be terrible, one mana or not. Not impactful enough. The reason you BUILD a deck is to have cards you actually want in there. AE just muddies your deck and is WAY harder to get the cards you actually need in there.
SI still sees play, a lot of it. But Blink Fox is also generally a better card, so is Hooked Scimitar.
Make sure you have Edwin and Leeroy, they’re staples and always will be. Aside from that, go and get a Tempo list, as it performs better. It’s an extremely cheap deck, you don’t even need Myra’s.
AlsoCutlass is poor because of poor weapon attack boost options as well as Zephyrs being extremely common, thus weapon removal is common.
Rogue is pretty much doomed to stay an aggressive Tempo unless it’s really swayed otherwise.
