Well blizz, you finally lost me

So aggro. ever since the early days of zoolock players have hated it, I have personally hated it. the issue being three things, first is decision making, second is interactivity, and third is consistency.
Aggro players say that it requires skill and decision making, and it does, just a million times less then any other archetype, statistically a game that lasts 6 turns is going to have far less decisions to make then one that lasts 10, along with that the fact is that aggro means click face, in an average game the aggro player will make decisions besides clicking on the face on two or three turns per game and even then its only if the opponent has already broken their board. there is a reason that bots play aggro, because its easy.
Secondly is interactivity, the simple fact of the matter is that an aggro deck is far less interactive then even a combo deck who’s entire combo comes from the hand. do the math with me here, if you shorten a game with an aggro deck down to 6 turns how many cards does the non agro player get to play? typically 3 or 4, and consider which of those turns they can make a meaningful impact on the board, if you consider that the main way to beat aggro is with a board wipe they may only get to make one major play in the game, and that is limited to turn 5 or 6, right before they die. along with that combos can be disrupted in a number of ways, hecklebot being the most obvious but beyond that mechathun combos can be out-healed, and they can also be killed before the combo goes off, the other fact about combo decks is that if any one thing disrupts them the game is over, the combo loses. compare that to an aggro deck, the only ways to beat the current aggro decks out is to either out aggro them or to get exactly a board wipe into healing, and even if you get exactly that combination you still have no guarantee of winning as many of the aggro decks today are hyper resilient, rogue because its cards are so value that they only need to play a couple to create a board that can kill you quickly, druids because they can reload stupidly quickly and often.
Consistency, oh boy, first is the point that in any other card game a deck that can be as aggressive as hearthstone’s aggro decks would simply die at the first hint of a board wipe, whereas hearthstones aggro cards reload your hand and sometimes your board by their sheer existence (hunter’s charge cat, fox in rogue, acornbearer in druid). secondly is the fact that aggro at this point in time is so strong that it is near impossible to counter, even a deck specifically built to beat aggro will sometimes lose to aggro because the aggro deck simply kills them before they can play the cards meant to give them the advantage. lastly the fact that most cards in aggro decks are fairly interchangeable, the amount of available aggressive cards is so high that you can have redundancies on top of redundancies in an aggro deck where you have to draw exactly your 2/30 board wipe to beat them, and that’s if they don’t kill you before you can play it anyway or immediately reload after.

so you can see the issues i have with agro decks, lets identify some problem cards. I will be making general suggestions for the class, then following with some things i think could help fix individual cards within that class.

Rogue: The class as a whole is pretty alright, though changing some of its classic set cards to not hit face would not be a bad idea.
Wagglepick: 4 mana 8 damage is too strong, my suggestion? either add one mana cost or lose one attack or durability with a reduction in mana cost to cover the value, leave it as a cool secondary shadowstep without giving smorkers 8 free damage.
Hench clan thug: Can be an issue, if i had my way its base stats would be 2/3 or 2/2, maybe stick rush on there to keep it decent.

Druid: Oh boy what do we even say about this piece of work? tokens everywhere, the main issue with the class is the way it quickly reloads after having its board broken, along with the fact that most of the cards it uses to buff its big boards buff the health above three which causes big problems for board wipes, it costs warrior (the best wiper at the moment) 6 mana with warpath to clear 3 health minions, by that time you are super dead.
Power of the wild: this is a classic card that has been consistently strong since the advent of the game for one reason or another, the simple fix would be to add one to the mana cost making both modes much less appealing, other options would be to make the buff mode only +1+0 to make it less board wipe resistant or +0+1 to make it less aggressive.
Acornbearer: make it give one squirrel, simple, easy, reduces how hard this card lets druids reload and makes them have a much less valuable one drop slot.
Savage roar: Since classic this card has been a big problem child, I would say this and bloodlust both need to be nerfed into the ground in all honesty due to the fact that they give any deck that spams out minions aggressively the ability to play a single card and have you dead from 20. the nerf i would suggest would be to bring it up to 5 mana, if that seems extreme then instead make it give the opponents hero immune til the next turn so that it can be used as a value clearing tool but not a smorking tool.
The forest’s aid: this card is far too strong of a reloading tool, the text basically says “if the opponent does not play a board wipe next turn they lose the game” and can be played twice, keep in mind that most classes only have two copies of a single board wipe at the moment and you see the problem, remove the twinspell.
Wispering woods: far too strong in a class with cards like acornbearer, if you nerf savage roar along with acornbearer this card would be mostly in an acceptable state though i would still point to implosion and fiendish circle in support of making it cost 5, 6 if other cards remain unnerfed.

Hunter: while this deck isnt in the top 5 meta i thought i would add one card here because honestly it needs fixing.
Kill command: should never have been able to target face.

Thoughts in general:
I know blizzard likes aggro, it appeals to a wide player base because some people really don’t like making decisions, those impulsive people probably buy a ton of packs, but I know if people had a reason to want your high cost legendaries they would also buy a lot more packs, think about it.
I really wish blizz would put out some cards that target aggro in the same way they put out cards that target combos, that way if people hate playing against aggro or it gets stupidly popular like it is now savvy players can stock their deck full of cards that counter it, imagine a 3 mana 1/1 that board wipes if its played before a certain turn, or a card that heals you to full and gains taunt if you took enough damage before a certain point in the game but was trash if played under any other conditions, you could start teaching aggro players how to play around certain cards whilst also giving others the option to have an easier time dealing with aggro at the cost of having dead cards against other decks.

TL:DR
went over some reasons I dislike aggro and its bad for the game, suggested some fixes for the least acceptable meta decks.

Final thoughts:
I love hearthstone, I really do, but until I can actually play my cards and not die before i have the mana to do so I will be refraining from purchasing more packs. each time a new expansion comes out I buy a big preorder thinking things will get better, I have every expansion for the past few years, but it hasnt gotten better and im burned out, so thanks for the fun times bliz, ill probably keep an eye on the game and play time to time but i cant justify more purchases.
Thanks for reading!

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You could just as easily argue that aggro is more skillful precisely because games are shorter. If a game only lasts 6 turns, then the decisions made on each turn matter a lot. So sure, you’re making fewer decisions, but the stakes are much higher, which require more careful consideration of how to play a match.

Maybe you’d be able to interact more with aggro decks if you didn’t play a deck that does nothing until turn 5-6? And of course, the whole argument falls apart when you consider aggro mirrors, which require you to consider when to trade vs. going face.

Both Control Warrior and Control Shaman do OK against different types of aggro decks. Sure, aggro is in fact doing fairly well at the moment, and part of that is arguably because Hearthstone favors the attacking player. But a big part of it is because of the rotation (and corresponding lower power level) made aggro decks more viable. It hardly makes them unstoppable, as you suggest.

Look, you don’t like aggro, that’s understandable. But I think your game experience would be better if you tried to learn how they work. Because your whole post reads as something that comes from a very biased perspective (that is, a perspective defined by playing against aggro, but never as aggro). Playing aggro decks might help you better understand how they work, and how to alter your deck building or play strategies to better counter them.

Or you can keep playing do-nothing-until-turn-6 decks and continue to be frustrated. Up to you.

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Board wipes is not always a counter to aggro. Developing early board instead of hero power pass is much better

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Oh my god.

This dude makes threads like he plays hearthstone. Dragging the point out to fatigue and making the opponent concede just to get away.

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It’s so pathetic reading these control losers who are complaining about skill in a game like hearthstone lmao.

Go play magic, if you think this game is so skill-less. I bet you won’t because you wouldn’t be good enough to get highly ranked.

Average control player: “OMG I FILLED MY DECK WITH 25 CARDS ABOVE 6 MANA, AND AGGRO IS ALWAYS WINNING!!!11!!!. I BOARD CLEARED ONCE AND THEY JUST REFILLED!!!1#2123!#!#$%#%%”

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I did nothing for five turns and have 8 cards in my hand. I don’t understand how I keep losing to aggro, guys!

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Whats sad is ive been building a bunch of really silly control decks (ya know, cause i crafted maly and alex). Im not suffering at all to aggro. With way off meta decks.

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and yet zoolock is one of the decks which require the most decisions, trade or face, play or greed but eh, you know what yo’ure talking about, right? or you’re just another rank 15 player who’s complaining about something he’s never played?

you’d have won if you had 10 cards in your hand

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The timing on this thread seems a little weird, because I think this might be the least aggro meta yet. No Baku, no divine favor, no Dire mole and razor maw, no arcanologist into Kirin tor explosive trap, etc.

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LOL

20 chars olololololol

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Stop reading after this.

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Trust me, you saved yourself a lot of time.

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I used to play Timmy decks, but now thanks to cards like Archivist Elysiana and decks like the new control warrior, I main tempo rogue now.

I can’t be bothered to play 15 plus minute games against control snoozers that rope every turn including turns 1 and 2 just to hero power, so I’m forced to play a fast deck to avoid these kinds of games.

Hearthstone needs to get faster, not slower.

4 Likes

Same here. I can’t justify paying anymore. I bought the $50 pre-order plus had gold for 65 more packs plus what Blizz gave us. Yet since we started April 9th it has been horrible for me. I’ve taken nothing but losses.

I had 5 complete meta decks and I’m still losing with them. How about Bomb Warrior? OOoo! How everyone was complaining about how OP t was. Me? Talk about a losing deck. 5 losses in a row after playing a win here. A loss there, Back and forth. until those last 5 games.

I’m the same, it’s no fun anymore. It’s no fun with Arena. It’s no fun even in Casual. Standard is a joke and even Wild is in the same situation. Right now it’s dailies, Tavern Brawl and dust the extras. That’s it. My wife has said step away from this game before my blood pressure goes sky high. She’s right!

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Do not bother reading this!
If you want to read something that will possibly give you a head ache or just make you a stupider human being, go right ahead.

What an absolute waste of time I cannot believe you spent so long writing the same thing in 15 different ways.

HOW can aggro decks not be interactive??

aggro decks ARE THE MOST interactive in the game, because you need to constantly respond to their threats

go sleep, it’s bed time

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What? You think playing an aggro deck making sure the match does match longer does not require decision making? Knowing when to value trade or go face does not require some planning?

My usual response to the idea that “Control is more complicated.”

No, no they’re not. Most control in Hearthstone are pretty simplistic. I’d argue that since Face Hunter went away that Baku Warrior of last rotation was one of the easiest decks I have played.

Hearthstone is not the best game to try and find hard decisions in. Even the msot testing control decks I have played are not that difficult to play at 90% efficiency.

By the way you’re getting this opinion from a Control player (in HS) and a Midrange player in Magic. I just think you’re confusing skillful with more interactions. In truth, HS’s decision tree for any deck ends at about step 2 most of the time.

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So is this thread just a lot of I’m losing, I have good decks but I lose to X and Y and they should all get nerfed?

I mean I can’t say I have 5 complete “card for card” meta decks, and I play a lot at Rank 5-1.

Each deck I figure, you don’t just pick it up right away and just start winning with it, you figure it out over time.

Tweaked a version so I didn’t have to craft any cards, lost a couple but won 1. Doesn’t seem that great, you need to draw your bomb cards and survive until the bombs do the damage. So has some bad matchups, and Dyn-o-matic ends up being useless against Mech Secret paladin. Eh, but I could see it being good in the right hands.

Control Warrior is tier 1.

Drops mic…