Thanks to EvilDave219 of Reddit.
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I feel like the biggest miss we’ve all been making this expansion is not naming Control Warrior “Blackrock & ContRoll”.
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I think I’ve seen “BlackRiff n Roll” on HSreplay?
Also, how much money does VS get for this stuff? Will it slow down in a month when the meta is completely solved? Will we get to stop seeing the scriptures of our Lord ZachO handed down from the mountain every other day?
EDIT: In the DH section, “but right now people aren’t playing board flooding decks.” Effing really? Can somebody tell that to all the Pure Paladin and Totem Shamans and Undead Priests and Unholy DKs I’m seeing above Diamond 5? Get out of here. Nobody’s playing board flood decks, really? Is this only for top 1k legend where Miracle Rogue and Spell DH are prancing around in their wonderful pocket meta?
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You sound slightly resentful? This is a summary of a podcast. This isn’t a realtime analysis of the data they collect.
Hat is leaving to work at Blizzard, so the Podcast may or may not need a break to get a new co-host.
Edit: Undead Priest comes in both Flood and Burst variants. Burst is currently winning in popularity afaik.
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It becomes tiresome when every other serious post about this game includes some appeal to authority by citing the latest VS report, regardless of whether it’s a good-faith argument or applicable to a given situation. Makes it feel like you’re talking to a google search result instead of a person.
The only problem with information becoming more available and accessible is that many people will not think beyond it, and many become armchair experts. I have nothing against ZachO or VS personally, it’s just becoming a discussion-ender.
“Well VS says this, so there.” Oh okay I guess this conversation is over.
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I understand. It does happen a great deal here. Just point that out to whomever you’re arguing with.
Being able to point at a report made from a dataset is generally better than relying on personal experience. You do sometimes need to point out that math is just that, a set of numbers derived from a huge dataset and not every game goes the way the numbers say. Bonus points if you can point out the circumstances that cause games to go against the numbers.
It’s also telling that the hosts are begging for a From the Depths buff when that’s much more convoluted than buffing Drumkit. FtD’s weakness is the same as Igneous Lavagorger’s: they don’t draw. In fact, they have anti-synergy. And even if you buff FtD, it doesn’t guarantee you’ll draw that Silverfury Stalwart to stabilize on turn 4. You could whiff, just like you can whiff with Lavagorger.
EDIT: Furthermore, who’s actually playing FtD these days that this change is being requested? People are playing Drumkit and providing the data, I haven’t seen anybody running From the Depths unless my opponent plays a Hipster against me. Buff the cards people are actually playing! Thought the data people would at least get that part right.
Playing FtD on turn 3 won’t make you not die to Undead Priest, Pure Paladin, or Unholy DK the next turn. Playing Drumkit likely would.
And they’re still fretting over Sword Eater. And thinking to replace it with…School Teacher? The card that will offer you garbage Warrior spells 60-70% of the time. We ain’t playing DK here, chief…
Really makes me want to check out the lists that people are sending to VS, that would lead in these directions. I must not be playing enough games, the data I’m providing is getting drowned out by nonsense. Hopefully Blizzard doesn’t take VS’s Warrior advice as the most valuable.
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Outcast DH is unplayable soley because it dies to Renathal Blood Death Knight.
Long Live Sinful Brandead.
Me no play minions.
Me no get Blood Boiled.
Me no get Corpse Exploded.
Any normal AOE on turn 5 that successfully hits will essentially make both players “skip turn 5”. Blood Boil is clearing and healing 10 health. It’s making the Outcast Demon Hunter skip 2 turns while the Blood Death Knight skips 1 turn. 
Corpse Explosion is Defile that can’t be played around. It’s a stoopid card that shouldn’t exist. Spammy Arcanist and Lord Godfrey were better designs.
Yeah the From the Depths suggestion seemed a bit odd to me. I think what ZackO is thinking there is that it could be a nice curve to play Depths on 3 and then mana cheat something on turn 4 like a Stalwart, BRnR or even Lor’themar and also be able to do this multiple times through School Teacher. I think this would be a very nice buff to control warrior and would make warrior more consistent. Mana cheat is very powerful and shouldn’t be taken for granted; but the lack of mana cheat isn’t control warrior’s main problem. The lack of control is. This buff would be very effective only if warrior gets more help in the control department. Being able to have a do-nothing turn 3 that enables a better turn 4 is worthless if you are facing an undead priest with 9/10 worth of stats on board with reborn.
That said, He also said that Control Warrior simply needs more cards. And I agree with that very much. A 3 mana Drumkit helps but it’s not enough.
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That or people could get interest in playing the expansion decks.
Lor’themar could go down to 6 or even 5 mana with the status being change to match the cost.
That way there would be more consistent to buff your deck on turn 5 despite of not being in the optimal way if done in that sequence.
Basically improve the odds of deckbuffing coming on turn 5.
Sigtyr just politely pointed out that the summary is horsecrap. Anyone who’s been playing above Gold 10 knows it’s a total pile of bull. 3/4 decks are minion swarm.
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You know you’re on the Internet when someone dismisses an entire hour long report because one line disagrees with their untracked experience.
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IDK if this is me or Koyen but I’ll bite anyway. I’m certainly dismissing the small Control Warrior section because for weeks they’ve been giving bad recommendations based on people playing bad lists inspired by the initial VS-recommended list for FoL Control Warrior a few weeks ago, which was itself actually quite bad. I’ve been providing all my Control Warrior games via Deck Tracker plugin for weeks (it’s the only deck I’ve played since hitting Legend the week FoL launched) and I don’t see my gameplay represented in these reports at all - I’ve stabilized a roughly 50% winrate with my homebrew deck, which isn’t enough to climb to Legend from Diamond 5 but is a heck of a lot better than these lists we see VS recommend that are lucky to get 40-45%.
I still read the whole thing and give them the benefit of the doubt on CW until I’ve read it all, though. The takeaways for decks that are being played a lot are valuable. I’m just getting more and more nervous that Blizzard will adjust Control Warrior according to what VS reports, which has consistently been poor judgement.
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Fixed that for accuracy, lol.
Although I like your quip. It’s a good call to fix the name.
Well, you are one person on a homebrew. You’re probably not logging enough games to move the needle.
VS weighs toward the Legend stats because those trends tend to move down the ladder. So if you want to predict where things are going, you look at Legend play and then track how it trickles down.
I don’t pay for HSreplay but I might be around 6% of all Control Warrior games recorded (Blackrock n Roll Warrior) if you add up all the games played for those lists. 10% if my opponents are running Deck Tracker when I’m not, but can’t guarantee that.
Yes I’m serious. There’s only like 5000 CW games up there right now. But they do have that comment on requiring 5 unique pilots, which is the killer. IDK how HSReplay and VS use the numbers provided by deck tracker.
Hmmmm, i’m not calling you dumb or anything, but you’re using VS plugin, right? They don’t use the same data, strictly speaking.
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It becomes tiresome when every other serious post about this game includes some appeal to authority by citing the latest VS report, regardless of whether it’s a good-faith argument or applicable to a given situation. Makes it feel like you’re talking to a google search result instead of a person.
The only problem with information becoming more available and accessible is that many people will not think beyond it, and many become armchair experts. I have nothing against ZachO or VS personally, it’s just becoming a discussion-ender.
“Well VS says this, so there.” Oh okay I guess this conversation is over.
This!! This this this! A Thousand times this! It’s important to be able to understand that context matters, and so many people on these forms just blindly regurgitate the info on VS as if it’s law. But VS reports on data as if it were from top legend, and most of the playerbase is sitting in diamond or lower ranks. That discrepancy has massive implications. In the podcast VS reiterates " Top legend players don’t want to play aggro decks… there just is no aggro at top legend". Here’s three examples of how this discrepancy can affect ladder climbing.
VS Syndicate is advocating decks cut AoE, and in the podcast they continued recommending to cut AoE. Because at top legend some of the most popular decks are Miracle rogue and spell demon hunter…which AoE is pretty worthless into. But in diamond 5 and below theres a massive glut of aggro decks, everything from paladin, to undead priest, to totem shaman, to unholy DK and beyond. AoE is critical to winning those matchups, and you see those decks more than anything else on the climb
VS Syndicate says that at top legend Tony druid is one of the most influential decks and is an important meta contender. But they’ve acknowledged that if there were even a hint of aggression, tony druid would be tier 4. In the podcast they’ve reiterated that tony druid is good at legend because nobody wants to play aggressive decks. In an aggressive field tony druid is literally “unplayable”, and the vs report also acknowledges this. It gets murdered by wide aggro in brutal fashion.
VS also says that Paladin is one of the worst decks to play at top legend…because people are playing control strategies and things that do nothing but remove board. On the rest of ladder though paladin is THE strongest class in the game, boasting the highest win rate of all classes.
If you’re trying to climb to legend, the recommendations VS gives from people who are already AT top legend are usually just going to make your climbing experience worse, not better…unless of course you understand how to put the info into perspective and make adjustments based on YOUR own field of opponents.
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