Hello all,
If you had played an Adaptive Amalgam earlier in a game and it had died, setting of its deathrattle that shuffles it into your deck, if you then play Velen, Leader of the Exiled, would Velen’s deathrattle (that triggers the battlecries and deathrattles of all Draenei played that game) cause Velen to be shuffled into your deck?
I don’t have Velen so I can’t test it, so any info will be welcomed.
Thank you and have a great day!!!
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Velen will shuffle in another Adaptive Amalgam.
There, I saved you a craft. =)
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lol, thank you very much!!!
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You are lucky that it does the intuitive thing in this case because it’s a Deathrattle. This dumb development team forgot how Battlecry was originally coded. If instead Velen tries to do the same to a “copy this” with a Battlecry: it copies Velen itself instead.
The Devs tried to save face by pretending on Reddit that this obscenely counter-intuitive nonsense is intentional.
The only intentional thing is that the Battlecry coders in 2013 did not plan for that interaction.
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But if you played Saronite Chain Gang before you play velen, he will resummon himself infinitely unless silenced/polymorphed. You literally can’t kill him because he will always summon a copy of himself on death.
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that’s weird. As someone mentioned earlier, when you summon Velen after Chain Gang, he summons himself on death - and Shudderwock summons himself as well. Why would Velen not shuffle into the deck himself?
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Because deathrattles and battlecry triggers have different meanings of the word “this” according to the developers.
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ah. The joys of programming oneself into knots.
As for the original poster, I made a deck with this trying to run some Exarch Maladaar and Velen shenanigans. It was basically just a long match of shuffling in 1/1s and watching Velen keep coming back until he Reno cleared me. Yeah. Not viable to say the least.
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Its been a while, so I might be mistaken, but doesnt Undatakah copying Immortal Prelates DR shuffle Undatakah into deck?
I guess Undatakah doesnt “trigger” DR’s, but it only adds further confusion/inconsistencies, if it does work as I remember.
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This is because Undatakah GAINS the deathrattle of prelate, not triggers it.
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Yeah, thats what I thought.
But as I said, it does add another layer to the confusion/inconsistency factor.
Of the 4 options (copy BC, trigger BC, copy DR, trigger DR) ONLY triggering a DR uses the base minion. Everything else uses the minion “casting” the effect.
I know they say “working as intended” but its just dumb to have an outlier like that.
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I agree it’s dumb, but this is how they designed it for some weird reason. It’s been this way for awhile though.
Shudder triggers Saronite.
But things triggering Rattlegore never worked that way.
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Whoever coded Battlecry in 2013 is very innocent here. The dumb thing happened with these developers. They pretend it’s intentional that “summon this” summons Velen.
The only “intentional” thing is that the developers of 2013 did not have a “summon this” that was repeated by something like Velen.
They simply forgot in 2024 (or didn’t know) how it works and they created an obviously unintentional counter-intuitive mess.
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Shudderwock has existed long before this and was intended to work that way back then…
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It doesn’t matter when they forgot. They forgot / didn’t know how it works now. Velen is obviously a non-intentional interaction to spawn infinite versions of itself based on a different card that would only spawn itself once.
This is Blizzard and on Hearthstone on top. They don’t dare to complicate even the UI to be slightly more counter-intuitive and you think they intentionally made a card to be that blatantly counter-intuitive?
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i’ve come across this twice now. it’s so OP because not only can you not kill Velen because he respawns, but he has taunt so you can’t ignore him either. Super frustrating. Forces you to first run a silence and then hope you draw it I guess?
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hes lying
the dev let us know this is how its supposed to work and always was intended to work this way
he been repeating that lie on all velen threads
this was posted 28 days ago by a blizzard software engineer to explain how the mechanic works
Hopefully this can clear up some confusion:
Deathrattles
There is a difference between when a minion triggers another minion’s deathrattle and when a minion has another minion’s deathrattle (through a copy effect).
Example 1 - Copied Deathrattle
If you were to use Death Growl on Adaptive Amalgam while it is next to a Wisp, and then the Wisp dies, the deathrattle copied from Adaptive Amalgam would shuffle the Wisp back into your deck.
Example 2 - Triggered Deathrattle
If you were to trigger Adaptive Amalgam’s deathrattle with Xyrella, the Devout, it would shuffle a copy of Adaptive Amalgam into your deck. Not a copy of Xyrella.
Example 3 - Copied & Triggered Deathrattle
If you were to play Boneshredder, and they chose to copy AND trigger Adaptive Amalgam’s deathrattle, it would first shuffle a copy of Adaptive Amalgam into your deck, and then when Boneshredder died it would shuffle a copy of Boneshredder into the deck.
Battlecries
Now this is only how Deathrattles work. Triggered Battlecries work like you’d expect. Also, there is (currently) no way to copy a battlecry on to a minion. Mostly because that doesn’t make any functional sense, like copying a deathrattle does.
Example 4 - Triggered Battlecry
Triggered battlecries uses the active minion executing the Battlecry as the source. If you were to use Shudderwock to trigger Saronite Chain Gang, it summons a copy of Shudderwock. Likewise, if you use Velen to trigger Saronite Chain Gang, it summons a copy of Velen. Infinite Velens.
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Nice strawman. I said Blizzard is twisting the truth. Yes the Developers of 2013 did intend it to work this way; these developers in 2024 obviously did not; I will never be convinced they planned “infinite Velens” and in that extremely counter-intuitive method to cause it on top.
Come on think a little: this is Blizzard on Hearthstone we’re talking about: they don’t dare to even complicate the UI one bit.
You really think they intentionally made a convoluted way to spawn infinite Velens nobody anticipated intuitively?
Yet, these 2024 devs have stated they DO intend it to work like this. They have LITERALLY stated they do!
You are wrong.
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I don’t believe them. They don’t dare to add anything that counter-intuitive in other parts of the game.
Why did they miraculously add something so brutally counter-intuitive now?
Occam’s razor: the simplest answer is usually the truth.
Simple answer: they just didn’t notice before release.