So basically you wanted the powercreep on them to be even higher?? Most of them are already extremely powerful. The powercreep you wanted on them would make the game all about just playing the titans.
Their flavor is very ok, i just think they should be more resistant to removal since they are titans, like some kind of immune or hexproof effect on them even for a couple of turns…
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The fact you imediately jumped to the conclusion of someone who not like something new wanting powercreep tells a decent amount about how you did not even think before speak.
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Even if it was the case this is how card games evolve. People here are past time to realize that even in the best hands powercreep will slowly consume any card game that gets new cards release that impact the meta.
Diamond here at moment, if this is the case then why the hell I don’t see ANYTHING ELSE??? Most of the time.
Even DK variety was cut now, it is all frost DK.
People don’t like to play the supposed “top tier”?
I don’t talking about the top 1% in the legend, I am talking about the most common place Diamond - Low tier legend.
No they don’t.
If they did like you would be seeing more unholy DK.
This is the problem when people like a deck too much. Literally anything turns into justification to play it even if there would be better choices.
Even so still DK was the reason this discussion started.
30 DK’s for each warlock, rogue, shaman or warrior.
Sometimes I see a paladin here or a DH there but most of the time, I talking 3-4 times for each 5 games I only see DK.
Sure.
Still people like to play some decks more and when they have a reason to play a bad deck they do even further.
In this case the hound hunter matchup.
They do a year end rotation specifically to avoid this. It would work if they kept the core set’s power relatively low and stopped pushing archetypes so they see play.
Doesn’t have to be top tier to be irritating as hell to see all over the ladder. Every ex control warrior wannabe is playing this craptastic wellfare epic of a deck. Its the participation trophy of hearthstone.
Remember the time when DH was released? It was the same. It has nothing to do with the class being too strong, but people prefer playing new classes. Also DK is Arthas, the most iconic warcraft character that’s why people play him and also everyone has almost a full collection of DK cards so it’s only natural that more people plays DK over other classes. But it doesn’t mean DK is too strong.
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DK will be one of the weaker class in the future because of the rune mechanics and because each class gets the same number of cards . Blood DK for example got 0 blood rune cards. The only way DK stays relevant in the future is if they get strong cards like they got this expansion.
Believe whatever you want at this point.
There is this thing called synergycreep that is similar but not exactly the same as powercreep.
It happens when you keep design cards that can play together at some point at this process you’re forced to either accept powercreep or just outright stop your card design.
In other words:
Those things help it not go even faster but not prevent powercreep from happening like you want to believe.
There is definitely more synergy creep than power creep in general (i.e. a lot of cards are powerful because of their synergies not because of the card’s individual power levels – which is why hardly any non-tribal neutrals see play), which I also think they’ve been trying to reduce.
(Compare Warlock’s fatigue package to last year’s curses or relics.)
I just disagree it’s a foregone conclusion that it will happen, they literally have a mechanism to keep it under control, they’re just not using it. They push archetypes to make sure they’re relevant and it results in heavy power creep.
And here is the “evil Corporation fault” argument.
Take this example before i stop talking about this:
We have a 30 card deck okay?
Literally any deck.
What would make me replace any single card from it with another?
The expectation of make that deck better.
Be it better in general or better against a certain opponent. The fact is that even the “Fun crew” try to make their desired card work as better as possible so they pull off whatever meme they want easier.
If you really believe what you’re saying then go there and design a game yourself because there is more than 50 years of evidence against you.
This is science.
Good design makes powercreep TEND to 0(near 0).But it will never be factually 0 and in older games sooner or later it will hit because even 0,00000000000001 will eventually make it go to from 0 to 100 if you add enough times(or in the case of hearthstone release enough cards).
No, it’s a “design team is screwing up” argument. Rotating older powerful cards lets them print new, impactful cards that aren’t just outclassed by older cards because the older cards aren’t in the game. But they’re just printing more powerful cards anyway.
Until Stormwind we saw this literally in action. New cards would see some play once in a while in Wild, but they tended not to make a splash.
Like yes, more powerful cards will be printed, if that’s what you’re saying, but I’d still say in a certain respect, even in FoL they’ve just printed blatantly on-paper overtuned cards and they refuse to nerf them for I’m guessing they don’t want to piss off the player base but I think it’s honestly behind a lot of the drop in player numbers.
Speaking anecdotally, the reason I stopped playing for a while and that I might take another break is I can only put up with degenerate nonsense for so long before I just accept they’re not going to fix anything and the game just isn’t fun for me anymore.
What I think minami is trying to say is:
Cards from a new expansion ONLY see play as long as the playerbase believes that they have power-crept at least the 30th card in their deck, if not better.
And this is true. I’d go on to say: Power creep is the engine that makes cards playable at all in the first place. Cards being playable is what sells packs. Therefore by definition no CCG can remain in business without power creep.
Looking at power creep as some kind of sinister force is a lot like looking at gravity as a bad thing. I mean, I’m not telling you that you have to like it, but it’s going absolutely no where. There’s no way to “defeat” it, no utopia where it isn’t a thing. I’d recommend just making your peace with it.
It’s as if you kinda understand that Blizzard wants and needs to sell packs to Standard players, but then: how dare they try to get Wild players to buy packs from a new expansion?
Of course Wild is not immune. Wild is not gravity free utopia.
TL;DR: complaining about power creep is ridiculous and cringe.
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S+ Tier: Hunter
S Tier: Warrior, Demon Hunter, Death Knight
A Tier: Druid, Warlock, Priest
B Tier: Rogue, Pally
C Tier: Mage
I mean blatantly the point of wild is to avoid power creep. If they’re going to power creep wild, just abolish standard honestly. Why even do otherwise?
From the era I’m talking about wild players still used new cards, just less. And obviously wild players can play standard if they want to.
That’s just blatantly untrue, so I dunno what else to say. They could make way more effort to not power creep cards or push archetypes and still have new archetypes be attractive. New cards that are fun and push the power of the game in some ways, sure.
A 6 mana 3/4 with windfury that can clear literally any minion or deal like 14 damage face? Um… no.
Or uh, they should do more to limit it because it’s gotten pretty out of hand and it’s turning a lot of people off to the game.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but wild is where the most powerful, broken decks exist. Simply because in wild, you have access to every single cards printed (except if they are banned), you can create decks extremely powerful.
Take Kingbane rogue for instance, the instance of the deck currently in wild is far more powerful than it ever was when the deck was in standard, because of all the weapon buff/card draw cards printed over the year, and not balanced to played together in the same deck.
Wild is a complete sh!t show as far as I am see it, it’s not fun to face ultra powerful deck all the time.
Mostly false. The point of all game modes is to make the developer money. CCG developers do not make money without power creep. Developer intent is to power creep Wild.
That said, I agree that what’s in it for players is keeping old cards playable. That’s the difference between Wild and Standard (where rotation is accepted as a means of reverse power creep). As such, there’s a bit of a negotiation to be had. Too much power creep and Wild players get upset because they have to commit a lot to new sets, Wild players either quit or move to Standard because they’re most of the way there as far as commitment goes. Not enough power creep and Wild players don’t commit to new sets enough, Blizzard doesn’t get enough revenue from Wild players, Blizzard might as well just delete the mode. The continued existence of the mode is dependent upon striking a balance between these two positions.
Maybe I was a tad hyperbolic in the last post.
On the one hand, again, CCG developers do not make money without power creep. You can’t expect any mode to be completely free of it. In this regard I meant what I said, it’s ridiculous and cringe to act like zero is to be expected. That’s like expecting a game developer to work for free.
On the other hand, too much power creep is kinda like charging too much for the service you’re selling. There is a point at which it threatens to become mode-destroying by chasing off the playerbase.
There is such a thing as too much power creep. But there’s also such a thing as not enough. Games that try to avoid power creep as a design principle do not last because regardless of how much their players enjoy the design, the game will die (and fast) if the expansion packs can’t get good enough sales numbers.
Well I’m being very hyperbolic in order to suggest that making new cards that are intentionally meant to be stronger than existing wild cards in order to push wild players to buy packs doesn’t make sense.
But I think McB was being a little hyperbolic too, so eh.
I think now there’s a lot of talk about how few FoL cards are seeing play in decks (which… I don’t think is remotely true but anyway), but I remember way back when, if a strong deck got 1 cool new card people were happy.
I mean, sure, the point is to make money on some level. But the reason to separate the two is to keep customers happy by being able to not have to keep printing better and better cards to sell packs.
I just think it’s possible to introduce powerful new cards and strategies without a United in Stormwind levels of just printing new powerful stuff. Which I actually think most players ultimately don’t like because it makes the game less predictable.
Okay, well I suppose we kind of agree on that point. But I think framing it/characterizing it as Power Creep is odd. Like RoS introduced new powerful cards, but I don’t think it had much what I’d describe as flat out power creep. It mostly introduced new ideas and card types. Not all of it worked, but I remember people still really enjoyed that set and that year.
But there was very little just “it’s this card, but even better”. Or new cards that just blatantly didn’t follow the rules. They used to do that when they wanted to really push one class (Priest in GVG for example). At the time Drakonid Operative just blatantly power creeped, but it was to empower a really weak/struggling class.