This meta.... Is not bad?

Multiplayer Discussion
1

Hi there,

Been a while, haven’t touched the game since the release of the expansion (not mini set), or maybe a few weeks before.

When I saw the expansion and the release coincided with the message from the devs (on this forum) that they saw balance as a non priority, I knew I didn’t want to invest in it (time that is.)

I think something has changed with the dev team though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the latest cuts from the Hearthstone dev team were the people not seeing balance as a priority.

In any case, I decided to read the latest Vs report to get a sense for the meta, and I saw ramp druid and secret rogue in t1, I knew I had to give this meta a try, those being some of my favorite archetypes to play.

I was able to craft both decks almost entirely, except I didn’t craft the druid Titan because it looks like a “win-more” card with all of its abilities super passive.

The rogue secret deck is surprisingly much unchanged from past rogue decks so was easy to craft.

Here is my take on the meta:

  • ramp druid is overpriced by everyone including VS, it’s performance is not as good as advertised

  • ramp druid is a very strong deck, but vs aggro you need the 20 armor combo to go off at some point and vs control you have to pray to the gods you craft a decent weapon and/or you cheese multiple copies of it

  • it’s possible I don’t understand ramp druid fully it seems like it could have multiple win conditions, I’ve mostly relied on the weapon but without wind fury rolling it can be tough

  • yogg plays a minor role in most matchups and can be a massive liability vs priest if they can identity theft copies of a zero cost yogg many times, his biggest role is as a board clear and occasionally for a coin flip in lost games by going full tentacles

  • prison breakers are the unsung heroes in this deck, their value to the deck are insane, and, as I’ll discuss below are even stronger in secret rogue

  • if you don’t forge in a game you are screwed in slow matchups you will be over run, so this deck is incredibly dependent on drawing into one of two forge cards, seems like a design flaw to me (of the deck)

  • I haven’t had much luck optimizing this deck, the VS list is near optimal as far as I can tell, but it feels very clunky, and it’s win conditions are far from certain

  • secret rogue is very good, and unlike druid , I think secret rogue is under priced

  • I’m a rogue main attaining top ranks typically with rogue so my experience may not carry over to people who don’t like playing rogue or don’t understand nuances

  • prison breakers win games in this deck, the fact that they hit face for damage is insane, I’ve raced aggro decks and face damage decks successfully because this card hits face. It’s a control card that doubles for a face damage card in a pinch, amazing, probably the single best card in this set

  • I hit a wall around diamond 2 with the VS version of this deck, the version of this deck they list is pretty unoptimized, they lean way too hard on concoctions, which imo is a mistake, it’s a common trap to fall into because how well concoctions work in previous rogue archetypes such as miracle and thief.

  • optimising secret rogue, I was easily able to hit legend after that, the optimization is to cut most of the early concoctions for better mid game pressure (crabtoa) and leaning harder into secrets (specifically taking cheat death to synergize with all the amazing minions)

  • I played around 15 games with each (druid and secret rogue) and the latter seems much stronger, even as you get to legend

What’s your take on the meta?

Obviously I’ve only played with a narrow range of t1 decks, but I’ve run into arcane hunters, and that seems like the only other good deck in the meta right now. Everything else seems playable, but trash compared to those 3 options, with my ranking being

  1. Secret rogue
  2. Arcane hunter
  3. Ramp druid
1 Like
2

This is the worst meta I’ve ever played in, that’s my take.

5 Likes
3

Doesn’t matter if you don’t play though. I’m glad that I already finished this month.

4

ofc its a good meta if you love the top decks…

5

I’ve been saying this, but people chime in saying that I would have lost to something else if a card like this is beating me.

6

I think meta analysts walked so far into proactive spell disruption (Cult Neophyte, Speaker Stomper) that they forgot about Rustrot Viper. In an Ignis meta.

Viper hits Ignis, Aggramar, Craftsman’s Hammer, Staff of the Primus, Horn of the Windlord, Cosmic Keyboard, and Felstring Harp. And probably some others that I’m forgetting. Why don’t more people tech it in?

It’s not going to save you from a Ramp Druid high-rolling a 1-mana Windfury weapon that is followed by absurd amounts of Pounce and Dissonant Mood, but neither was Speaker Stomper in most cases. The Druid will just play Prison Breaker and Yogg or Eonar into all of the above to stabilize on the turn they can’t play a dozen spells.

Honestly, I think the worst part about Standard right now is that we’ve got Pure Paladin and Face Hunter back on top, with the ever-unpopular Enrage Warrior up there with them. Which is a response to Ramp Druid. It’s what we’ve been dealing with since Nathria, pretty much.

7

From someone who only watches Standard, I can’t imagine trying to play and have fun at the same time with the current meta. I haven’t even watched my usual favorite streamers play much since it’s so bad.

I’m not saying it can’t be fun for others, but I think Standard either needs a big overhaul or it will permanently be on the backburner for me.

8

I think it’s pretty miserable. Most games still come down to whoever high rolls the best. You can make absolutely no mistakes and still lose to somebody who plays one or two cards

If you’ve designed a strategy game where luck is more important than board control or resource management, you’re doing it wrong

9

Almost certainly happens in <1% of games across all servers.

10

You mind sharing the secret rogue i like secret rogue - my only concern for the meta is that that is more rock paper scicors then usual but i feel it is good in that every class has a playable deck.

1 Like
11

Are you really trying to tell me you’ve never played a game where you’ve done everything right and still lost?

Some of the best players in the game have complained about this on their streams

12

No, I’m trying to tell you that all of us do something wrong in more of our games than we realise, and a huge, huge majority of players make mistakes in every single game.

1 Like
13

Oh I definitely agree with that. Everyone makes a bad play now and then

14

Better then stormwind, but not good, powercreep has completely destroyed the interaction with your opponent. Its fine though to kill sometime as a mobile game

15

Secret Rogue has been identified as a T1 deck by the last VS report and I’m seeing more and more of it in dumpster. The thing is that it’s got a high skill ceiling but a low skill floor. Anyone can pick it up, dump secrets, out-tempo everyone in sight, empty hands, clear boards, and then throw down Yogg.

The Druids I’ve been facing haven’t been able to capitalize on ramp like the pros do. They can get to 10 mana, they can throw down Titan and Yogg, but they can’t close out games. I usually target them with Nature Shaman (which is awful in this meta) and OTK them at 8, regardless of their 35 armor. That’s another high skill ceiling deck that’s annoying at lower ranks just from the armor gain.

Hunter is Hunter. They’re going to pelt your face and you’d better have answers on the spot or you die. Eversong Portal juiced on 4 and you don’t have clear? GG. Better luck next game.

Anyways, I’d expect these 3 decks to eat some nerfs, either directly, or to Prison Breaker and Yogg.

2 Likes
16

The meta is bad. It’s Druids scumming their way to 10 mana.

17

I definitely don’t think this is the case, in my experience there are three competitive decks,

Secret rogue
Arcane hunter
Ramp druid

And those 3 go neck in neck, in a hundred games I’d expect each to win around 33 games with secret rogue winning 34. They are all close.

Re read the replies and I must of missed this, this is the list I use. Please note that this is optimized for a slower meta, there’s no doubt that the early minions and concoctions work better vs faster metas, especially if Paladin is prevalent.

However, Paladin matchup is usually a coin toss, if they get perfect curve it’s nearly impossible to address their curve.

I’ve not lost a single game to druid, priest or warrior with this list, whereas I’d commonly run out of resources with the VS list, so this is much better in the slower matchups.

Enjoy, let me know if it works for you.

The one copy of gone fishing btw is a common rogue deck building trick, it greatly protects against awful games were the key cards you need are at the very bottom of your deck. Once again this trick is only relevant in slow metas (because in fast metas you will likely be dead or win before that matters) but this meta is very slow thanks to druid.

The dream play in this deck is to get private eye out with cheat death and then repeatedly play a private eye to cheat out secrets, draw into your deck, and thin your deck so you don’t draw secrets. Once you got this going in a slower matchup it’s nearly impossible for your opponent to address it, they will waste resources while you will be gaining resources and you will enter the mid game with a huge advantage.

The dream play vs aggro or fast matchups is to get a serrated bone knife plus queen or crabtoa, and use a prep plus give knife to cheat out one or the other turn 3 or 4. Afterwards you will simply be winning tempo and the rest of the game will be trivial.

That’s why this deck is insane, there’s so many good plays if you know what your doing.

secret

Class: Rogue

Format: Standard

Year of the Wolf

2x (0) Preparation

1x (0) Shadow of Demise

2x (0) Shadowstep

2x (1) Breakdance

1x (1) Gone Fishin’

1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn

2x (2) Cheat Death

2x (2) Double Cross

2x (2) Perjury

2x (2) Potion Belt

1x (2) Potionmaster Putricide

2x (2) Serrated Bone Spike

1x (2) Sticky Situation

2x (3) Ghastly Gravedigger

2x (4) Prison Breaker

2x (4) Private Eye

1x (5) Queen Azshara

1x (6) Crabatoa

1x (15) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed

AAECAd75Awi3swTYtgTbuQTe2gTMoAXooAXipAWplQYL9p8E958E3NoE3doE9d0Ew+ME9+0E36AF38MFwpoGu54GAAA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

2 Likes
18

So the top 3 decks run yogg + prison breakers.
Maybe those cards should be looked at ^^

2 Likes
19

I am glad your enjoying yourself again i will let you know how it goes with the deck :slight_smile:

The random card from another class concuction is severly underused usually the draw 4 is ok but vs druid i sometimes wonder if it bette to do something big early on.

1 Like
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Atm im on usa account to prove game is not rigged i am clmbing wth a 1 star bonus to at least diamond 5 hopefully lol i am gold 3 with renethal thief rogue in a few days i did climb to silver 10 but then stayed away

I dont have all the cards here but i will try out ur list on my main account on eu :slight_smile:

1 Like