There's too many Scam style decks in Standard right now

When Titans launched I actually really enjoyed myself and I had fun for maybe the first 7 or 8 days. But the last few days I have realized that I was just enjoying the game because things were fresh again unlike when Festival launched.

My main problem right now is just how many decks exist that win with un-interactive and frustrating blow outs. Whether Mage is playing Alibi 3 turns in a row and does an OTK on turn 10, Shaman doing an OTK turns 6-8, Warlock summoning Thaddius turn 5-6, Druid summoning a full board of 10/12 taunts on turn 5-6, Priest playing their Titan every single turn or what Mech Rogue used to do before they killed it.

I was hovering around rank 140-120 for multiple days but lost it all after they nerfed Mage and Rogue even though I played neither of those classes this expansion, now all I see is Mage every game ironically-- I’m guessing because Mech Rogue countered Mage and now the Mages are free to get to late game.

Yes you can play Tech cards like Speaker Stomper, Dirty Rat and a few others to counter some of this frustration but it honestly doesn’t really help most games at high ranks as people play around tech cards easily.

I’m just getting very frustrated that I can lose so many games to complete blowouts that have nothing to do with my decisions. I went from starting at rank 43, to hovering around rank 120 to just today dropping from 125 to rank 950 all to one turn swings every game.

12 Likes

bro just kill the shaman before he does it. gg ez

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That’s not an OTK, that’s a combo.

“Scam style decks”?

Scam as in winning the game in one turn, OTK or not.

There is only answer - the MOBILE GAME must play faster games - thus we have this overpowered fiesta of 1 turn kill decks, none need to play 30+ minutes games on phones sadly.

It’s not s scam - it’s Blizzard’s way to make faster gameplay on mobile. Sadly it’s the way of powercreep.

I agree, there are too much unfun combos right now (if you are the opponent). Too many feel-bad moments.

I am not climbing any more and only play on low ranks with mostly off meta, shenanigan decks. Nevertheless, standard is unplayable for such a playstyle. Meta decks got too strong so you lose many games. The other games are against boring blizzard bots.

For people like me, who do not climb and just play some goofy decks, it gets worse and worse. And right now, only wild is playable due to bots in standard.

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The mobile market is kinda sad though. Like pc gamers want a game, mobile markets often pander to the crowd who just want a game while on the loo or on a train.

The gameplay isn’t deep, but the pockets of people who work and will dump 50$ on a candy crush session monthly is often deeper and easier to reach than the gamers who’ll uphold the market to deliver a polished AAA game they’d want to play and love for life for 10-20$.
Over whatever the loo game making a billion dollars more is.

(Card balance problems)

I won’t blame the card designers for the direction of the company. The cards are fun, but it’s been a systemic issue at blizzard for WoW, hearthstone and overwatch that blizzard seems to fired many of it’s playtesters, (CARD ART: WORK IN PROGRESS). and seems to be focusing on optimizing profits often.

I won’t say people trying to make a fun game or doe eyed are evil. By all objective merits, blizzard as a company tends to be good at listening to all our feedback (Whether interpreted as sometimes “moronic” by glassdoor devs or “poorly executed” by consumers or not :joy: )

(Don’t need(?) axe murdered, just balanced/ fun/ interactive(?) )

I think for the most part if a video game is unbalanced, i’m definitely just in camp. “I hope they fix it, so the game can be fun!” instead of “OMG, BLIZZARD, MY OPPONENT HAS CARDS THAT COUNTER MY BUSTED CARDS, HOW DARE YOU!”

But yeah, a lot of decks this expac seem definitely very polarizing. I think they’re interesting (except mech rogue’s stealthed / uninteractivity, please kill or tone down the the uninteractive stealth/windfury/cloning parts.)

(Are current deck lists too “scam rolly”? )

As far as powerlevels go, compared to sw, i admit i get less que anxiety knowing if i have a 70% chance of losing at deck selection alone. But once a highroll / “scamroll” “pop off” turn goes off.

There’s often a lot of moments you could just lose control of the game Permanently and don’t have good or interactive ways (if at all) to always come back.

I will say the card design is interesting. I won’t say the cards are evil, they’re fun, but they need to be properly tuned. We have like 20 interesting looking decks and only like 3 are getting healthy 51%+ vs winrates… And the t1 of titans, despite being a early day/week in… Look concerningly unhealthy.

(Interesting decks, but is traditional broken being smothered by Super-Broken?? )

We have interesting decks, but they’re being strangled by sub 49.6% winrates even on the scammy side of hyper otk with aoe and 0 mana cards and free thad locks playing infinite imp portals…

For instance, Thadius, while not offending in winrate, has a history of every deck that’s EVER been able to successfully use him so far cheat him out. Then they can play 1 mana sargera, clear the board or summon infinite taunt imps 6/6s. And play a card designed for 9 mana for 1… While still having a 10/10 on board.

Do you see how absurdly one sided facing that deck might feel like? And yet, it’s at the top of the 49% winrate decks. Because the top 3 decks are so strangling, stuff that’s like the 6th best deck of 20 is still SUB 50% wr (vs).

Are alleged blizzard bots hiding balance issues?

Too many decks are STRUGGLING to pass +50% winrates vs human players. Yet by having alleged blizzard bots in standard. It might be hiding the problems of deck balance by adding [born to lose] fodder for people to climb past.

Lots of fun sounding decks exist, but 3 meta decks are so far up the others, and if they’re each so equally EXPENSIVE. What point is there to spent 5k-15k to craft anything BUT best, when you could spend 15000 dust to craft a tier 4? It just polarizes the meta and the decks might be problematic. It’s the first few weeks so people are playing fun decks now.

But when the meta settles. Only 3 decks are showing 51%+ VS winrates while the other 20 are like 42-49%. It just doesn’t look healthy. when many is becoming heavily UNSUSTAINABLY affordable?

(Class struggles)

Druid is EXTREMELY struggling on VS lists and while Treeant druid is cheap, it’s concerning it lacks a 50% winrate against MOST meta decks that’ll probably see play on the climb to legend. It seems like it’ll be a deck doomed to get d5 on bots/ 42-49% Vs winrates, then fall off and struggle if it gets to legend if at all on a affordable build.

Hero power druid is also a favorite of mine playing to the greedy lategame fantasy. But it doesn’t have many legs in standard and most of the other class’s power cards just become more nuts in wild.

Nature shaman’s otk, for instance is already already hyper fast in standard. But in wild, it gets hyperjuiced with frog totem adding almost infinite draw, lightning bloom adding mana recovery, and being able to draw their whole deck in a single turn almost consistently.

  • Lots of combos feel like Stealer of soul decks, where there’s no telegraphing, then it happens, and you just don’t have any counterplay options to dying or losing for the rest of the game for a single turn you couldn’t interact with.

Rogue too is not spared from it’s cards offering snowballs from the twisting nether, in a format it usually shouldn’t be in. It takes a lot of power level to make a previously never existing deck appear in wild. And titans has fulfilled elements of that.

Sparkbots are not only usable in standard mech rogue, but can be used to fulfill caverns below hyperfast on a hyperscam roll that can leave the player feeling like effective counterplay wasn’t offered. Thankfully the deck (was) rare, but i know enough from seedlock that one fourm post and we invite cancer.

But take a look at scamroll degeneracy.

(1. T1 Rogue plays Quest, duh).
2. T2, Rogues Play mechwarper, preps [add 3x sparkbots to hand], plays for 0, play the 2/1 that adds another sparkbot to hand, play 4x sparkbots. Leaving them with a board of 6 minions, completed quest, and a board that threatens to become a 20/20 to 30/30 windfury/lifesteal/divine shield/taunt board IN A SINGLE TURN.
On turn 3, prep caverns below. Your board of 6x free minions now can become a 20-30 drop. Every sparkbot will now also have pseudo charge enabling 15/15-20/20 of ‘charge’
dmg with 5/5 windfury/lifesteal/divine shield magnetic. You can lose the game on turn 2/3 and have infinite stats the rest of the game. It’s stupid even for wild.

They don’t need to maybe axe murder every card usually. But maybe in retrospect, some of the power outliers might need heavier balance adjustments to healthy winrates than light taps(???).

Like, i think the cards are fun and interesting, it’s just the power levels/polarization from a gameplay perspective that leaves you feeling like your counterplay options sometimes don’t SEEM TO ALWAYS exist on curve if a opponent draws well.

I could also go for buffs too if they wanted, perhaps to help standard budget lists compete, maybe some more help with standard hero power druid, or the flopped bloom cards?

Right now hero power druid is fun, but the 1 mana 1/2 bear, despite feeling fun to play, gets cut from nearly every list for diluting the card pool and not offering a lot of tempo. Even something as benign as a 2/1 statline or making the cat a 2/2 or 3/1 could help.
Even something as mundane as “Your next hero power costs 1-2 less” could help the hp druid while keeping them a build around.

Hound hunter nerfs(?)

Hound hunter as well could probably(?) use nerfs by wr. But ironically the hound in it’s name might(?), not be the most offending target by drawn winrate. Many cards like Hydralogon, 6 mana 10/10 king mukla, and 8/8 to 16/16 charge king krushes can all be a little strange to watch dominate drawn winrate.

Indicating the top level cards still carry the power, and that hound hunter is a lower drawn winrate card even in it’s own deck. (But still probably enables much of the greedy aggro.)

While a 8 mana stranglethorn heart to revive all of them while bringing rush impact and bringing the hound back.

Tl;dr

Yeah got carried away again, mb.

  1. Decks are powerful and interesting, but definitely feel one sided/polarizing.

    • (When they highroll, counterplay can be very limited, or may not even feel like it exists.)
  2. Winrates don’t always seem healthy from vs lists.

    We have like 20 decks. But only 3 of them are passing +51-54% VS
    winrates while strangling the other 17/20 decks from even competing.

    Many decks can have problematic play patterns, yet don’t even pass 49% wr. Those are sw level balance concerns.

  3. Perhaps it’s time to consider more buffs and nerfs again, to help healthy deck balance?

    • The cards are fun, but they need to be balanced and offer fun/enjoyable counterplay options and experiences.
    • Not games you felt you had no options to fight back and (could only roll over and die.)
5 Likes

I know, I absolutely hate it. There’s so many ridiculous things where someone just plays a bunch of reduced cards and you think you’re doing fine and then they’re 1 mana, two 2/2s and then it’s 2 mana for four 4/4s and then its 1 mana to make all 6 of your “2/2’s” to 6/6s… and you just die if you don’t have a board clear… and it happens out of nowhere…

They so desperately want every game to be over in 5 minutes or less, I hate it. I truly hate the design philosophy. It angers me to no end.

1 Like

if it happens on one turn and kills its probably safe to say it’s an otk

I made a similar post a few days ago, not even playing at that high a level, still at diamond, I said most my games now for a few days boil down to…

HUGE TURN

do you have an answer ? do you do you ? do you have an answer ? no well I guess I just won the game.

sometimes the huge turn just kills you had a game where a shaman cast the 1 mana deal 3 lightining on me for 0 mana and it dealt 28 damage !! yeah 25 frigging spellpower and all of that came from a chain of I think 3 x (0) mana spells that gave every minion on the board 3 extra spell damage and all the minions came into play that turn !!

1 Like

they aren’t alleged, you can see they are bots because you can’t friend or report them and they make the same dumb plays blizzard AI make like casting the 5 mana rag on an enemy minion

Like I said. Give it a week until it settles down.

Hearthstone used to be a fencing match, a duel of feints and lunges and advances and retreats.

Now it’s a duel of rocket launchers at twenty paces, where you don’t have to aim and whoever fires first wins.

17 Likes

I think this sums up most playera frustration with the game atm roght here

Yep, there’s very little back and forth going on right now. Almost every game is a blowout.

Hunter’s win on tempo and you don’t feel like your Mana does as much as theirs (because it doesn’t).

Outside of those, locks / druids just scam out uncontestable boards on turns 5/6 in the same play pattern that got Whomper druid nerfed last expansion.

But who needs boards when elemental shaman just deletes you from hand on turns 6/7?

And somehow mage’s Sif OTK on turn 9+ is the deck that feels most fair…

These decks don’t really give players much agency to respond to. It’s just a rush to do the overpowered thing, hope you draw yours first, and then queue again.

It’s about as interesting as a coin flip.

3 Likes

Clearly youve never played a priest mirror before

OTK is a combo and Mage can certainly OTK you. What’s your point exactly?

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You are wrong… well, at least according to Team 5. For whatever reason they think that flashy OTKs from hand or turns where you summon 69/402 stats with taunt in one turn is good for the game (i.e. brings them money). We had the Stormwind meta, then we had the bonkers Kazakusan/Astalor/Denathrius (don’t forget about Miracle Rogue) spells and we are back to ridiculous 60+ OTK potential with Mage/Shaman and board vomit with treant druid/mech rogue.

Learn to like it or stop playing because it is only going to get worse.

Everyone here except a few are deluding themselves into thinking that balance is something the devs care about. They don’t. They said as much, and if you actually read their latest comments on design choices you’d see this plain as day.

The devs care about selling packs. That can be accomplished by maintaining a well balanced game that has a healthy future, OR, stay with me, it can be accomplished by cranking power creep to 11 and leaving it there to entertain the short attention span masses. Guess which one the devs are doing?

If you think this game has any element of strategy, tactics or back and forth that it once had you are once again deluding yourself.

Mathematically, there is a point in power creep where balance is no longer feasible due to the inherent instability of having near infinite pay off plays. Hearthstone was flirting with crossing this line for years now, many times stepping well across this threshold, but none of that compares to the state of the game today. They have not just stepped over this theoretical limit, they have left it out of sight well behind.

Yeah, I feel like uninstalling the game right now would be best for everyone’s mental health. There’s just really no point in playing with the meta as horrendous as it is. Why should we waste our time and energy caring so much about a game that only makes us feel frustrated? If Team 5 wants to bite the hand that feeds them, then let them. It’s only a matter of time at this point before the game is given the HotS treatment.

2 Likes