To put It in a simpler way :
When everyone is special no one is.
For those who got rub the wrong way by the elitism in that answer or Just want It to be more elaborate:
In last years blizzard is making a continuous effort for the decks to be normalized with good intention but with us starting to get the cons of It that we didn’t see before.
Let’s take combo decks to the side one second and bring other deck type that share the same feeling i want people to get. Reno decks.
What is the feeling they share?
The subversive gameplay feeling. You’re doing something with your deck that atleast in theory should not be natural.
The same applies for combo decks creating a big final turn instead of incrementally reducing your health.
Why is that a issue ?
When what you are doing is the norm It subtracts from the Fun of playing something like that.
Why you are not talking about netdecking then?
First because it would be a futile effort to try to stop it and second because blizzard itself is pushing that normalization of those decks before anyone else.
The long term solution :
Blizzard should stop making those decks for New/bad players thinking they’re helping someone.
Make It so pilot those subversive decks is a Challenge for the owner of said deck.
The New players think they want to play those decks but i guarantee you that if they were told that they Will have to face ridiculous popularity rates and mirror chance as the alternative cost they would prefer for it to be more dificult to play with.
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Because it prevents control players from stalling the game until the turn limit.
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Nah.
Someone can always concede and the devs step in when Control decks get overpowered too.
It Just not happens a Lot because of the Nature of the game.
Yeah. By making better combo decks.
…also, you’re not really trying to defend control decks stalling forever by saying “well someone can always concede”.
Yeah, well, control players have a chip on their shoulder about never conceding. Thats why we have combo.
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I do not share the same view.
Zillianx, Reno, Titans, etc are not examples of normalising the game.
I think a better phrasing is that Dev underestimate the players ability to cope with more complex plays.
A review of zillianx as an example. An array of choices where it can be built allowing a different needs to suit different decks. But in implementation, the default choices ultimately restricts the choices to 2-3 playable combination.
Had the array of choices be better designed, then it opens up more variety to interesting gameplay.
The problem is people don’t see combo as a valid win condition. They look at those games all wrong. They see health as a score board. They ignore all the other turns combo takes to setup and cry about the turn combo goes off as the only turn in the game. They forget all the other turns they could have done something and only focus on the combo turn where it’s too late to do anything. Combo is a different perspective. Combo decks force you to take action. You can’t just sit there with a passive deck that just reacts and is never proactive as you are playing right into what combo decks.
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some players do regard combo as a valid win condition thou.
problem is when the combo is achieved too early and consistently before any actions you take becomes meaningful.
That’s what midrange decks are for! For the first 7-8 years of Hearthstone, midrange decks kept control in check. I remember when I made legendary rank the first time. Shortly after Old Gods came out. I played Control Warrior and Secret Paladin was an absolute menace.
For years, midrange Hunter terrorized control decks. Their was almost like a rock<paper<scissors meta. Control beats aggro, aggro beats midrange, midrange beats control.
Now its: Aggro beats combo, combo beats rest, rest has no fun.
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So, you just gonna ignore the old combo decks that existed ever since Emperor Thaurissan? Malygos Shaman? Mage infinite fireballs?
Combo has existed for longer than you give it credit for.
I never said combo decks didn’t exist. The only thing I said is, you don’t need them to keep control in check.
Nope. Combo is necessary. Control getting too good makes combo more and more important to exist.
Old Control decks for sure you don’t.
For nowadays combo decks you do and you know it.
You barely gonna get one turn with a board against a control deck nowadays.
It does not happen because they are making sure it cannot happen again.
The sort of value oriented control decks that play as you describe are targeted in every expansion with cards that make the game finite.
As loud as the online boards are about how much they miss these decks, the rest of the world who pays the bills does not want to see them be strong.
No. A playstyle being too good means it needs a rework. If midrange decks can’t beat control decks, than the game design is out of whack. And specifically with Wheel Warlock and Starship DK it is way out of whack. Control decks have too much armor/health gain and it comes down too early.
Blizzard should make less armor and health gain and more healing. Healing is a more interactive mechanic, because it is reactive. With armor, you can just hide behind a wall and make yourself unkillable. That’s uninteractive.
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Rework is just a kind word for murder.
I don’t even know how to respond to that. This post has literally no substance.
Have you never seen a rework before? It kills things. Changing 3 or less attack minions have charge into charge minions have +1 attack, ring any bells? Yeah that’s a rework.
We usually just call such a thing a nerf. You want it reworked though, which means you want the text entirely removed on cards and replaced with something else not even similar to the original.
Yorick in League of Legends was a rework. Nothing like the original. Yorick is dead, character is gone forever. You want that on a card game?
Rework is murder.
By the same logic you could say: “Nerf is just a kind word for murder.”, because no one plays Zerg DK anymore. Just because reworks can murder a card, they don’t have to.
Example: Yogg Saron Unleashed. His effect got reworked. No mana cheat, fix 9 cost. What happened? Well he continued to be powerful. So much so, that he needed to be nerfed to 10 mana. Even then he saw play.
If reworks are done properly, they can make the meta better.
I agree that the issue is not net decking. Blizzard designs the cards and they should be able to see how certain designs will affect the game.
People, in general, will gravitate to what wins. So they need to design cards to win in a way that is interactive as well as increasing player agency. These cookie cutter designs remove agency from a player whether they win or lose.
Also so many of the decks are polarized so much that matchups feel won or lost 80% of the time based on the mulligan. I want to see more 55%-45% matchups and less 80% hard counters where you dont feel like your skill can even give you a chance to squeeze out a win as the underdog.
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I do not see how they undo what has been done here. There is so much power in the combinations that they are now the entire game. It really is the end of the line for what they can do when combination decks are faster than aggressive decks.