Oh ho ho, quotation marks. That must be like prefacing everything with “with all due respect.” After that you can say whatever you want. It’s in the Geneva convention.
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I literally said in the OP, it was not literally a scam. It’s your fault you don’t see that.
So I have to add in the full text of all of your disclaimers? I can’t just ride piggyback on the context you yourself clearly established? You have such brittle ears.
My point is, whatever words you want to use for the system fooling you, it happened because you expected the system to be fooled by you. You made a blatantly hypocritical complaint.
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so how can the system know if you are an absolute dog doodoo player or if the deck is hopeless because its for fun/achievements?
if one is really bad and loses all the time, but the mmr system doesnt place low enough, doesnt it miss the point?
lets say you get to d5 and then tank games for achievements, while constantly staying at the rank floor with 30% winrate. shouldnt one be placed against weaker players at some point??
there is no “cheating” here. there is absolutely no point to losing over and over just so you can get a 20 win streak and end up just where you started.
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Because achievement hunters complete achievements. The game can tell when you complete achievements.
If this isn’t obvious to you, you lack basic reasoning skills.
Tell that to the hundreds of people who do it on purpose, hoping it’ll give them weaker opponents
This isn’t speculation, watch every MarkMcKz video from when he created the channel until a couple months ago. Entire content creator audiences doing this stuff, until Blizz nerfed it out of existence in a recent patch
I’ll remind everyone that it appears to drop the MMR VERY OBVIOUSLY at the rank floor. The oddity here is that appears to not respect it AFTER the entire month resets.
It might be related to the difficulty suddenly rising apparently when you are right before a rank threshold.
MMR changes based on streaks, not individual wins/losses
I mean, it probably does a little bit, but it’s negligent.
The thing is, if you highrolled your way to ranks which are too high for your skill level, AND you start lowrolling at the same time, you’re just going to lose 20 games quickly and get back to where you belong (if not lower, depending on the lowroll streak), and that’s what normally happens to me.
What used to happen to me when I was doing quests is that, after you lose a certain number of games, you begin playing opponents so bad that you can’t lose against them unless they highroll AND you lowroll at the same time, no matter how bad your deck is. Your skillset is just too good for those opponents. That’s when you start going W-L-W-L-W-L instead of W-W-W-W-W or L-L-L-L-L, and that’s when your MMR just stagnates, it doesn’t change at all (actually, it does, it slightly falls, 1-2 worth of ranks per loss, but that’s negligible in the long run).
And that’s probably the scenario described in the OP.
And ON TOP OF THAT, MMR “soft resets” to the “imaginary” categories of players (10-star, 11-star…) so you play against people from the similar category no matter the differences in your MMR-s.
Notice that, even though they said MMR doesn’t reset, it’s obvious to anyone playing in high ranks that in fact, there exists a soft reset, because it’s the only way to explain how I can play against weaker opponents who are at the top of 10-stars or at the bottom of 11-stars while doing the placement matches, which I never get queued against during the season.
The MMR DOES reset softly at the beginning of the month. Even if they clearly stated no such things happen, it wouldn’t be the first time they lied.
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That’s not a bad explanation. I would not be surprised if the MMR I got this new month was based on 9 stars/d5 and not the massive loss streak at the final floor. Maybe it even knows I have gone 10 stars/Legend before that but it’s not important in this context.
It’s not obvious because none of what you described happens. At least not to me.
I mean, I don’t play every month, but EVERY month I’ve done it, I’m going against a Legend tier player of memorable skill in Bronze. Usually multiples of them.
Nope.
Probably not. Not really.
Every single matchmaking rating system that is public, e.g. chess ELO, has games matter more when accounts are new. With the number of games that you’ve played, Altair, your MMR isn’t really changing much no matter what you do. The game already has thousands of games of data on your skill level, adding an extra 30 ain’t gonna do much, even if they’re all wins.
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That’s not a bad argument. Maybe my dozens of losses weren’t too many either.
However it doesn’t explain the massive luck of skill of opponents DURING the rank floor.
Bro, I literally know all top 300 players names by heart, both on EU and on NA. If I get matched to an outsider, which only happens at the beginning of the month (or in very rare cases where I tank my MMR to dumpster levels), I know it.
Sure, you can say they might have highrolled their way into my MMR bracket, but that’s very improbable (why would it happen at the beginning of the months more often than not?)
Beginning of the month is also when I most often play against pros. It doesn’t happen a lot, but Reqvam, Photon and hardcore pros like them, I only get matched against them when I’m in placement. That’s because:
a) soft reset has been done, and
b) less games were played under the new reset, so the MMR changes more rapidly.
You’re very wrong about my MMR being fixed because they have thousands of my games recorded. If that were the case, I’d never be able to progress or drop down to 9k, which I sometimes do.
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It seems to me that, if the algorithm can reliably detect when players are achievement hunting — and there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be able to UNLESS it’s the first game with a new deck, because achievement hunting progresses achievements — then it would probably be funnest for everyone to match achievement hunters with other achievement hunters.
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The absolute best MMR bracket is way bigger than 300 people. When you’re actually in top Legend, it might slow down matchmaking enough to wait for a player that good, but it’s not waiting that long when you’re in Bronze. You’d have to memorize the top 3000.
It’s not resetting your MMR.
I mean, if you can write this, then thanks, you saved me some time and energy. No point in discussing anything with you if you believe in this.
The absolute best MMR bracket includes 20-50 players, pros and most hardcore semi-pros who got lucky with the meta. I get matched against those VERY rarely, and as I’ve said, most often at the beginning of the months.
Heck, you can literally find proof of this in my posts bragging about highrolling into top 100 and playing against them. It’s always at the beginning of a new month, in placement grind.
Take a look at this example:
28 days ago, September 3rd, when I finished my placement and hit top 100 → you can see 3 screenshots of me playing against those pros and semi-pros → and that’s the last time I’ve seen any of them.
I know, 1 example is not a proof of pattern, but the pattern exists and I vouch for it.
The thing is, unlike you, I do play every month, much more than you, so I do have the experience, and this topic is not one where theory and knowledge are available to us, so the only reasonable answer from you should be “Thank you, Altair, for teaching me how things work”, or just don’t answer at all, because you’re just going to write something wrong and stupid.
Soft MMR resets happen every month. It helps people reach higher bracket and play against better opponents. It’s a thing.
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Sure, however attempting to code that appears to have many points of failure. I can’t think of way to write that without misjudging bad deck decisions with achievement hunting but never say never I guess.
I mean matchmaking bracket. And I know you’re wrong here, because I’ve been in the 500s personally and got matched against #36 Legend. (I think. I chatted with Schyla when it happened, maybe he remembers my exact rank? Probably not.) When I say “best bracket” I mean, what is the lowest Legend that it is possible for #1 Legend to match against when they queue up. You know that range is multiple hundreds when you’re actually in Legend.
I’m saying it’s even wider when you’re in low ranks with high MMR. Mildly speculative.
What is certain to me is that there is absolutely something going on DURING rank floors or maybe during stagnation into the same rank in general even if it’s not a floor which causes sone matches to be OBSCENELY easy to win.
That’s why what Altair said on soft resetting at the start of the month based on your BEST performance or rank makes a lot of sense.
Hence we were imprecise saying “match making is only based on MMR” (we’re not precise on what MMR even is).
It’s important to understand that, if you’ve played a lot of games, that your MMR has a huge sample size behind it, but that doesn’t mean that everyone’s MMR has a huge sample size behind it. You are occasionally going to run into new players on an initial win streak, who are given similar MMR as you briefly because early games have a much larger effect on MMR than later games.
Also consider that Hearthstone has a high churn of new accounts constantly, because bots.
You’re going to occasionally match against players who have much higher MMR than they deserve. I think MMR is a very good measurement of skill, but it’s not perfect or anything. In particular, it can’t magically know things very well in an absence of evidence.
Running across these MMR mismatches is going to happen semirandomly, the same way you might randomly run into a certain person you know at a McDonald’s. It’s not like rolling dice exactly, but it’s still pretty unpredictable. It’s prudent not to look too hard for patterns where there probably aren’t any.
And if that is your definition of best bracket, again, I’m right and you’re not. As a rank 100-500 you will NEVER get matched against rank 1.
Highest I’ve been matched against in those ranks was 20+ and that was when I was on a big highroll winning streak.
But noone is talking about this scenario, anyway, so why bring it up?
The point still stands, I will (and you, as well) most often be matched to the best possible players online at the beginning of the month, but not later on, and I blame soft reset for it.
Soft reset also explains pretty neatly how I see MMR in general. I’m not claiming I’m 100% right on everything I say about MMR, but I can confidently say I haven’t yet seen a better take than mine, based on my experience no-lifing this game.
If I did, I would have gladly accepted it and implemented it in my gameplay, maybe even try and build upon it, if the theory wasn’t complete yet.
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This is true, but
the players I’ve talked about queuing into are all veterans with thousands of games like me, probably much more than that, since I’ve been AWOL for years.
Hence, your argument doesn’t conflict mine. In fact, my take literally explains the “semi-randomness” you’re talking about. If you adopt my perspective, it’s not so random (or semi-random) anymore.
The whole “mystery” behind the MMR system is the fact that you all assumed Blizzard can be trusted when they said no resets whatsoever are done with MMR. I didn’t accept that as an assumption. Why would I? People sometimes lie. Blizzard consists of people. Therefore, Blizzard sometimes lies.