The first VS Syndicate Data reaper report for TITANS is out

Multiplayer Discussion
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It’s that time again. The first data reaper report for TITANS is out.

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-270/

Summary - Hound hunter broken; Most OP deck in the format. Nature shaman Tier 1 potential. One of the most powerful decks in the format and still undergoing refinement. Druid looks bad now but will probably become tier 1 when drum circle druid is fully optimized. Warlock loses to control priest and nature shaman so it’s only tier 3. Mage likely to be just fine regardless of the outcome with solid alibi. Control priest bad, Plague DK bad, Relic DH OK, Paladin ok, Rogue bad, Warrior unplayable until it gets better non-damage based removal.

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team 5 is drunk druid stay at end still

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This has been the case since Shield Shatter rotated out and I’m astonished the “experts” took half a year to come to the conclusion. Please recall that VS rated Warrior #1 for TITANS cards and #1 overall going into the new set, despite Khaz’goroth being Khaz’goroth. Bellowing Flames is the main thing keeping Warrior as high as Tier 4, in addition to Mage, Blood DK, and Control Priest being popular. The fact of the matter is that before TITANS, Control Warrior’s last good set was Fractured in Alterac. That’s 4 dead sets for the archetype while many other classes are using the prime cards they’ve gathered since the start of Sunken City. Even if TITANS is a stellar set, it’s just not enough. We probably won’t see the archetype get back to respectability until it gets supercharged with buffs (like FoL) or the next set comes out.

Also tooting my own horn here but I was calling the Rogue resurgence as soon as we saw their TITANS preview. Took only a week to get nerfed. I guess people just didn’t want to play Mechs even though it was obviously a powerful tempo-based deck. Miracle Rogue might still come crush us all a month from now.

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Here’s something I want to know dude.

Warrior was the class before Titans. Enrage was super good.
If they took 0 cards from Titans, an just played there old meta deck surely it’s not Tier 4 garbage just from 1 expansion dropping.

Warrior is not a dead class, just people won’t play it’s ol better deck I guess right?

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People who want to play Warrior don’t want to play Enrage. It’s that simple - even moreso with a new expansion with new cards. It’s why Relic DH and Outcast DH are so rare despite being pretty good (probably).

I’ve also dunked on both Enrage Warriors I’ve seen since TITANS launched. Once with Odyn Warrior and once with Relic DH. I’m willing to bet it gets hammered by Hound Hunter since the latter got new secret support. Bait n Switch is killer, and so is Titanforged Traps.

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That’s almost always the case with deck archetypes that remain good throughout the 1-2 years they are in standard.

Undead Priest, Curse Warlock, Enrage Warrior, Relic DH…all are very strong right now, sitting at either Tier 2 and pushing into Tier 1, but people are tired of playing it. People want to play something different.

If a deck style stays the same but gets new cards to make it better, the deck will pick back up.

Thus, Curse Warlock sees more play now because of Sargeras introduction…but Enrage Warrior / Undead Priest aren’t playing with a single new card…so people really don’t want to play it, even if it’s good. Relic DH picked up maybe 2 cards, but it’s still very much the same deck and falls in the same category as Curse Warlock - playable, but overdone.

What this tells us is that people don’t necessarily want to play the best decks in HS, they want to play what’s the most fun and what’s newest. This can be seen by people in the past and now playing really bad decks simply because they are fun. Thus, Blood DK saw loads of play despite being very mediocre, Casino Mage in the past saw TONS of play even though it was trash…like 20% of the player base was playing it(!), Plague DK now sees lots of play, and on and on it goes.

Players care about what’s fun, what’s new and then what’s powerful.

When you get all 3 wrapped into 1 (like Mech Rogue and Rainbow Mage), you end up with what we have now where most people are playing it AND it’s super strong.

But yes - Warrior is not a dead class, it’s just an extremely boring one because the good deck is just the same old garbage people have been playing for awhile now. I haven’t ran into a single Enrage Warrior since expansion release, but I’ve seen tons and tons of Control Warrior.

I did say it would be a Tier 4 deck, didn’t I? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I’m wondering if people are going to transition to full Unholy Plague DK as I think the FUU version is doomed without being able to Grave Strength.

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Where does the Rogue bad statement come from? I am looking at the same report and Rogue is far from bad. What am I reading incorrectly?

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Mech Rogue isn’t bad, Undead Priest is bad, as confirmed by the matchups table.

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I find it funny people legitimately think hunter is a problem, I’ve been maining a hunter for years , this is by far the worst expansion for hunter

The current hound hunter gets absolutely smoked by so my decks. I’m curious where the problem is.
Like Thaddeus warlock isn’t an issue? How about playing. 5/3 on turn 4 he dies and summons a 4/8 on turn 4 which then summons a 11/11 on turn 5, then they play that relic and summon an 11/11 copy with rush. Ok 22 damage on turn 5. No big deal though right.

Hound hunter from last season was good for one week till people started spamming Thaddeus warlocks, armor warriors, mech rogues and quickly smashed the hunter deck.

The problem with the current hunter deck is it’s slow, doesn’t have minion removal except the 5 mana spell which is trash when your opponents are filling the board with obnoxiously stated minions
So it doesn’t even ramp up till turn 8/9 which is the worst time because so many decks ramp way higher and have far more removal and healing

Now if this was an aggro deck that could kill by turn 5/6 I would entertain the conversation of it being op, but it’s so far from that.
I could have 1000 hollow hounds and it still wouldn’t be enough healing and board clearing for this meta

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Still far too early to come to some of the conclusions they have. Lets see how the masters tour plays out next weekend before we start making any solid conclusions. I mean the Mage players have completely redesigned their decks and it’s playing better then when they played Alibi in it.

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You seem blissfully unaware that Hunter has 2 of the top 4 decks in the game before the nerf… nerfs that hit the OTHER 2 decks… so guess what that just did for Hunter? Yeah, best class in the game. Now arguably has THE best TWO decks in the game.

That’s supported by stats and data.

How is it that you find it funny other people think it’s a problem when the data clearly shows it is?

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People who want to play Warrior don’t want to play Enrage.

Well that’s not obviously true for all Warrior players. Some of us prefer it. Enrage is just as much a classic Warrior identity as Control.

There are a few things holding back it’s play rate

  1. It’s not great right now
  2. People who do try it give up quickly as its hard to play
  3. The ‘Warrior bad’ memes ruining it’s perceived strength.
  4. No support in the last 2 expansions.

Im sure it’s true that most people prefer control. But since when has popularity been a good barometer of taste?

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Was it surprising to see Plague DK is bad. Literally the deck is based on luck on draws. If worse Steamcleaner and Skulking Gheist kills plague dk with ease.

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I mean i can see the same. I want to play reno priest, but i don’t want to play shadow priest. And while i enjoy the deck, i can’t spend 20,000 f2p dust on even a generous 4,000 dust f2p budget just to risk t3/4 or tier gone performance.

I can see how enrage warrior might be the same bucket. It’s “the same class”, sure, but might not play in much more than the same portrait. it might use tons of expensive cards the players may or may not have.

Theres lot of sunk costs to decks and maybe people want to use their old stuff. Even if playing with new toys is fun, a toy you can’t afford to play with / [Can’t play with] isn’t very fun either.

Do you get fun being locked outside a toy store without money to buy anything?

It’s just a video game, but yeah i could see the psychology of how warrior players might not find enrage fulfilling the same way i loved Reno priest, but the costs came out of control, decks obsoleted it, (it went from like, t1 to 10% vs seedlock 1.0 wr in sw and killed wild for a year for me).

And while i love the dmg elements, i never opened a benedictus. I tried undead priest. It was okay, but it didn’t sastify any itches. It just felt like aggro hunter in priest’s clothing. It wasn’t too fulfilling and it had a good wr, but it didn’t really hold my gameplay interest for long either.

Decks can exist, but i can relate to wanting to scratch that itch. But then on the other hand, i’m also one of the people who’ve BEEN ROPED for 40 turns by the same freaks of wild who ENJOYED playing dead man hand, 40 turn fatigue, + reno/zeph Dead man hands boards…

And had those 40 turn long games or seen people use 40% → 0% charge battery death as a “win condition” lmao. XD

I think… i like having power cards that can go to turn 8-15. Like, i love it when a card of every mana cost, no matter how fringe, can be slightly playable. (at least up to 7/8 mana powerdrops). But yeah… Warrior has a past history of t40 fatigue decks, especially with renathal/armor tools lmao.

There actually was a Odyn warrior i saw in wild who got to early top 100 legend. It’s early 100 legend though so it means less than end of month, but it might see wild play.

it could gain like 20-30 armor a turn and use all the ludicris armor generation/aoe cards of wild so it might have a running start there. But it could also be a 5,000-20,000 dust flop or just a really well piloted homebrew. Wild is fun for that. But experimenting can be expensive as hell and if a deck flops, you’re out 5000-20,000. :/.

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I switched to full unholy after the first couole of days of trying full plague.

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well, somehow that data sheet shows different thing.

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Here’s my hot take and more than likely unpopular opinion after playing a little bit of Hound Hunter for the first time the other day: I wish there were more decks like it.

What I mean is the deck feels well-rounded. Good early game, good mid-game, and good wincons, tho I’ll admit to the fact it’s a feelsbad win con and the Hound could use a tweak. I wish every class had such a well-rounded, competitive deck. The only issue off the top of my head would be “what about class identity”. Well, I don’t see a lot of that lately,

Frankly, the deck reminds of HL Hunter a lot, one of my favorite decks of all time, so I may be a bit biased. So, I guess what I’m saying is maybe instead of thinking “they should nerf this deck”, it should be more along the lines of "I’d like X or Y class to have such a deck, as well.

I only played a handful of games, tho. I don’t have a huge feel for the class, made some misplays as I haven’t touched Standard in over four months.

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Control pries isn’t bad, it’s just late to the party since there’s been shiny new decks that are op to play and like other decks mentioned people are sick of it. It’s popping up more and more from D5 to High Legend.

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  • Automaton Priest sadly doesn’t work. Sad Beep Boop noises.

Heart-broken clicks and whistles.

The combination of Rainbow Mage, Nature Shaman and Hound Hunter is simply back breaking.

That doesn’t sound promising either.

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Glad I’m skipped standard this month. I’ve played standard for so long, and these initial results look boring enough.