During my ladder climb this month in the high ranks and at legend, there’s this Tess Greymane deck where you steal your opponent’s deck and make them cost 0 or something? And I thought this deck looked really convoluted so I looked it up and apparently it has a sub-par win rate–but a LOT of people play the deck anyway just because they just think it’s fun.
A lot of streamers play the Tess Deck so I assume that’s how it got popular. I’m racking my brain trying to think of… why… because I’m seeing more of Deathrattle Rogue and Tess instead of Odd Rogue which is what I think is the better deck for that class.
So how does a deck hit that sweet spot where a lot of people like to play it even though it’s not necessarily a tier 1 deck. Same thing happened with Shudderwock Shaman where it was hard to pilot and actually had a sub 50% winrate but still had a lot of representation. Is it just the “Cool” factor? Or is it something else? How do bad decks get so much representation?
Acedemic Espionage makes the added cards cost 1 mana, not 0.
But yeah, the deck has a TON of variance in it due to the obviously highroll-y nature of copying then replaying so many cards. It’s not a particularly consistent deck, but this late in the expansion and Standard year, most folks just want something that doesn’t feel like “the same old thing”.
Plus, Kibler does rather well with it on his stream and puts a lot of his cooler matches with it on his YouTube channel, further showing off the deck.
No, you add random cards from your opponent’s class, not their deck. You could get 10x 1 cost silence for instance. It is a clown fiesta, and that is why it is played. Will likely become better in the new expac, due to value generators, mirror match improvements and vendetta (allowing you a tool to swing boards in the 4-7 turn range, which was a weak point of the deck).
I’m not as optimistic, it loses some very good cards on rotation. Its a weapon based deck at its core, and loses its weapon tutor in Shinyfinder. The loss of Minstrel is also a pretty big deal for drawing into weapon buffers, and Val for double poisons (or anything added by AE) is not exactly an insignificant loss either. Vendetta is just a weaker Vilespine, which is also leaving.
Its a cool deck, and I hope it survives at a similar power level (relative to the meta) as it currently is. But with what its losing and whats been revealed so far, I’m not convinced it will.
Because of AE (adding 10 cards from your opponents class and they cost 1)
All your games play out differently. Variance in this game is the key to keeping things fun and fresh. Which is why players gravitate to this deck.
On top of that some of the absurd things you can pull off if you get lucky, are the reasons we keep coming back.
Like I’ve hit Gonk. The Druid DK and UI in a row
With Cutlass on board so every turn with the hero power I was dealing 10 and healing 10.
It’s probably the most fun you can have in standard at the moment IMO.
For weapon tutor we can use the spell we just got. 3 cost two pirate one weapon with combo. The new kobold pirate will be a staple of the deck, along with the undead pirate from WW, throw in another one for good measure and there is plenty of reason to run Raiding Party (just remembered the name). Also, it will allow for more targeted minion pulls, due to all the pirates we’d run having weapon synergy. Val could possibly be replaced by Vargath, but I don’t think it is worth it (since it would only be useful for deadly poison). Vendetta is NOT a weaker vilespine, vendetta is a free eviscerate that can’t go face, and is an amazing card. That said, I will miss my leafy boi, and I don’t know how to replace him (I mean, I will use the Unidentified contract cause it is cool, but it is not a good replacement). I honestly think the most impactful loss would be Hallucination, as being able to choose a beefy boi for tess to resummon always felt so good.
I will also dearly miss Valeera the Hollow (the only card I ever crafted in gold) but if that means no more rexxar or guldan (may he burn in heck for all eternity) I think it will be fine.
I want to believe what you say, but still not convinced. There is a reason Vilespine saw play while Assassinate didn’t, that body on board is huge for tempo. Spells with similar effects simply can’t replicate it in a tempo-reliant class. And the loss of Hallucination is easy, the conceal replacement card is a far better sub for it than Raiding Party is for Shinyfinder.
I would say reason people play Tess deck (or, more precisely AE deck) is completely different from reason people play SW deck. People play SW kind of deck because it has an almost guaranteed win against certain deck archetypes. People play AE deck because, as mentioned, it gives more variance to every game you play.
Some people tend to complain about rng in HS, but my observation simply differs. They luuuuuv rng. And rightfully so, not saying it as a mocking tone. No rng at all is more equivalent to chewing on glass, a strict, rigid, stiff, inflexible lifestyle. As Trump (mayor of Value town Trump) used to say, ‘what’s in the box?’, I’d say people love that feeling.
I feel you, that tempo loss sucks, and I do hope we can overcome it. That said, without the discover effect, pilfer is trash. The whole point of hallucinate is picking a useful tool vs what you are facing, and we can’t replace that with more clown fiesta lol. Still though, I think raiding party will work great due to more targeted tutoring, and prep (thereby allowing you to maintain tempo). Vilespine is definitely a problem though.
And without a body, raiding party sucks (for this deck). That’s the point I am trying to convey, at least Pilfer (thanks for the name, I’m on mobile atm and hate using it for internet crap) feeds the wincon like Hallucinate did, while also being a spell.
Your suggestions simply don’t replace the cards as well as you want to believe due to the simple fact they award no body.
Like I said, I want to be as optimistic as you are, I’m simply not convinced that your theory is correct. The body awarded by cards like Shinyfinder & Vilespine are simply too valuable to replace with spells that (almost) replicate their effects.
And Vilespine isn’t “definitely an issue”. J4ckiechans list doesn’t even run it and is capable of 1K+ legend. It’s Minstrel and Shinyfinder which are the bigger issues.
Raiding Party was already almost playable in Tesspionage because the deck runs Captain Greenskin. Now they’ve also gotten Hench-clan Burglar as another pirate that helps buff the Cutlass durability and can be tutored for with the weapon.
The main thing that Tesspionage loses are Minstrel and DK Valeera. I think Walk the Plank is ok as a Vilespine replacement. Vilespine was a busted card that was in nearly every rogue deck since Un’goro released. Every class’s power levels are going down with the loss of 2017’s crazy cards so the fact that Walk the Plank is inferior to Vilespine doesn’t mean it’s not a suitable replacement in new standard rotation.
That said, the list I’m currently thinking about is mostly unchanged from current Tesspionage:
Vargoth intrigues me. It does mean the 4 slot is really heavy, but the potential is really strong and it sort of fills part of the hole left by DK Valeera in that it can double beneficial spells. Deadly Poison, Academic Espionage, Sap, Raiding Party, in addition to Espionaged 1-mana spells.
Like I said, I want to be as optimistic as you guys, and hope it remains at a similar relative power level as it currently is, I’m just not convinced. I really do hope I eat my words on this one 'cos I theory crafted an almost identical list to yours. I’m just not convinced spells are gonna be adequate subs for minions with similar effects as per my Assassinate/Vilespine comparison above.
I’m playing in Legend too and all I see is Pirate Rogue… I wish I was lucky enough to play v Tess decks lol…
Also they are playing it because it is fun to play. Its not actually that good even if you are very skilled with it (weapon destruction is brutal). Where as Shudderwock Shaman was actually a good deck and could climb into top 100 Legend. Tesspionage Rogue and old Shudderwock do not compare an any way lol.
I assume it’s because they are bored and trying to have fun while waiting for the new expansion.
Well you have to consider we are approaching rotation, and I guess a lot of people just want to play fun decks at this point instead of trying to grind out against the same top decks. It’s a fun deck to play, never really would have recommended it for laddering though because of how bad it can be against Midrange Hunter for example… Like you need to be stupidly lucky to win that matchup. Anyway, interesting to see how the deck evolves next expansion because it doesn’t lose a whole lot I believe? And can potentially include some of them new burgal themed cards.
That’s how Hearthstone goes. A popular Streamer plays a deck and the sheep follow. I see it all the time. I watched a few games the Streamers with the most viewers Queue a few games of Hearthstone and most of the deck I queue into are carbon copies of the deck the Streamer was playing doesn’t matter what server or rank I am playing at the time.