…and add the tag line “Cannot reduce cost below (1)”. Like, all of them. Wild included. It would improve the game 10-fold. In general a deck’s win condition should never start with “well first I broke the game…”
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You got my vote.
This has a very good chance of being a real change in the future under the guise of " it limits future game design"
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Printing a miriad of 0-cost cards is also a huge problem.
Besides a few basic cards (Innervate was nerfed for good reasons however), that is. Mana-cheat issues arise due to a lack of certain limitations. And cards which reduce the cost of others, as an aura effect, need to have some constraints.
Your complaints have been echoing around the pro player scene since (and partially before) the introduction of such stupid interactions into the meta.
But, alas.
Here we are.
So freaking true. HS has a very unhealthy relationship with 0 mana cards.
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Eh, what the heck - I’m mostly indifferent on the issue, but if I had to pick a side, limiting discounts to “no less than 1” is not an awful idea.
It’s not that I’m gung-ho on getting rid of these combos, but also that the game isn’t necessarily worse in any way. Hypothetically, let’s say we made it a hard and fast rule: discounts can never reduce anything below 1, not Mechwarper, not Emperor Thaurissan, not Dreampetal Florist, not a Generous Mummy, not Scarlet Webweaver, not Thing From Below, nothing unless it specifically says “set cost to 0”. What does the game actually lose? The game can probably survive without Exodia Mage OTK, infinite Snip Snaps, turn 2 Radiant Elemental+Power Word: Shield, certain Molten Giant+Taunt/Shadowflame setups, and that funky Sound The Bells Paladin that aims to get a Sorceror’s Apprentice off of Zephrys.
Yes, it makes certain setups harder, but High Priest Thekal is probably decent enough if Molten Giants can only come out on turn 4 instead of 3, you can still make a King Krush cost 1 and Faceless it, and other decks like Exodia Mage might not be a super big loss if they weren’t possible anymore. It also prevents future unforseen zero cost interactions from creating problems and warping the game around them, so pre-emptively shutting them down rather than doing so individually (like with Reckless Experimenter) is perhaps a decent solution.
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0 mana cost cards also broke magic:TG. In Legacy you can win on turn 1 before opponent even gets a turn thanks to 0 cost artifact black lotus and mox artifacts which also cost 0. Affinity for artifacts spurred numerous changes and bans (affinity for artifact cards cost 1 less for each artifact you control so they also can become cost 0) and there was also a text that let you play something you were about to discard for 0 but I forgot the name.
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Yeah, totally agree.
Disagree, 0 mana cards don’t break the game, its the echo element that broke it. Ancient mystery, draw a secret the secret cost 1? Kirin tor mage, your next secret cost 1? Don’t make sense. Generally its okay to have card that reduce cost even if it hit to 0 and allow whacky combo like 7* king krush is alright to me. The issue lies with cheap echo card that can go infinite with mana reduction. The change in mechanics should be cards with “echo” or repeatable cannot cost less than 1.
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Just the “Aura” discount effects such as Mech Warper, Sorcerer’s Apprentice, etc.
“Triggering” effects like Emperor Thaurissan/Petalist and Battlecries like Fire Plume Harbinger etc. are ok without such restriction.
Just make a global change that a cards cost cannot be reduced below one unless the effect specifically reduces it to zero. This would help prevent granting infinite effects and would retain the power of cards like Kalecgos. Also may have prevented the retirement of Preparation.
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B-b-but my exodia mage! And my meme combos!
I can’t support destroying all cost reduction effects we currently have, but I will stand for not adding any more into the game that can reduce to 0.
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the thread isnt about 0 mana cost is about reducing cost to 0 which isnt that broken in every single card or combo
There have been many instances where 0 cost anything were some of the biggest problems in Hearthstone and had nothing to do with Echo.
Raza Priest - let’s combo with Spawn of Shadows for 20 damage to face no problem.
Naga Giants Hunter - flood board with zero cost giants because the design team is stupid
Emperor Thaurissan anything - Charge Warrior, Exodia/Freeze BS, no need explanation.
Sn1pSn4p Warlock - no need for explanation
Mech Mage and their shenanigans with Mech Warper back in GvG
Many cards are already designed around their 0 cost effects which can be changed to accommodate the proposed design change, but it still doesn’t deny that 0 cost has been a problem for years. I am up for this change.
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Out of those then u mentioned, you do realise raza priest is due to an “echo” hero power? Naga giant is just stupid designs more than the 0 cost issue but i am actually pretty okay with that combo. Emperor exodia are one of the best things in HS in my opinion. Not easy to execute and really fun when it works. Snip Snap is echo…, Not sure what was the mech mage issue then but ya even the example you raise includes echo issues.
OP
You also have to factor in other OP game destroying cards like arcanologist.
every deck ever would always run 2x arcs if they could.
this is without a question.
big priest would take the summon-hit any day for 2 mana draw a really op 3 card and all the idk 4 other synergistic things arc has going for it…card is totally the strongest in the game now that prep is nerfed (which it should not of been since combo, and like arc doesn’t require combo…yea…not good design)
draw 1 for 2 mana sucks unless there’s some money toppings on the ice-cream.
draw ur next turn? check
draw ur next turn, that early in the match, specifically turn 2, when drawing your next turn helps a lot more than say turn 7.
Example, ashmore. Card draws your turn 8, but it doesn’t matter, plus its only 1 of. Like arc is 2 bil times stronger than countess ashmore. please see through the fog blizz?
draw ur next turn synergy via cheat out?
draw a good secret, unlike stuff like hunters secrets since nobody trades / has to trade / can afford to run good enough / have access to good enough taunt to force at trade. Hunter’s would automatically run 2x arcanologist and our secrets are horrible relative to mages. that’s how good arc is, its beyond nerf-worthy.
Do you really want to see arcanologist mage, forever, and ever, if arc isn’t touched?
Also, its statted too-good.
2/2 would bring the card to ok totally fine super op but not card of the century op.
nerf arc to 2/2, then all is good bliz, mages still get their op cake, but its just no so op that like nobody can see or wear t shirts.
then im going to need a translation i have no idea what are you talking about
I agree but you have to give Mage something in return. It’s a massive nerf to Cyclone builds because of how much synergy Apprentice has with the cheap spells and Cyclone Mage isn’t even that great right now.
Maybe unnerf Mana Wyrm in exchange.
Raza and Anduin were not an Echo. Echo strictly applies another copy to play from the original. Refreshing is a completely separate mechanic.
Just because you were “Ok” with giants Hunter doesn’t mean it’s ok. It was a retarded game design that relied on 0 cost.
Emperor indirectly caused the nerfs and Hall of Fame for multiple classic cards, including charge and Ice Lance. Your opinion on Freeze Mage doesn’t matter here either.
Mech Mage used Echo of Medivh (not an Echo card) on Mech Warpers to heavily discount cheap mechs to flood the board.
Handlock caused the nerf and later Hall of Fame Molten Giant, a card that was heavily used cause of 0 cost 8/8 walls.
None of these are Echo related and all (except Mech Mage which rotated before anything happened) have been subject to nerfs which have shown that they were either a strict problem in the meta or that they were complained so much that it resulted in nerfs. 0 cost is becoming more and more problematic and has consistently been in the past. And what I listed was not based on opinion; this is all from HS history.
i have solution for both side blizard can add neutral card 0 cost card which make all cards in enemy or both player decks radom from 0 to 10
Because this card was never a problem?
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