Making the mana cost of a card stick and be applied no matter where it is (on the board and in the deck as well as when it’s in your hand) would make it function the same as any other buff/debuff to a card functions and would get rid of a lot of the most frustrating ways to lose.
Cards like holy wrath and conjurer’s calling are able to abuse this inconsistency which is what makes them so strong when interacting with giants/shirvallah and any other cost reduced card.
It also just makes more logical sense. Holy wrath drawing a 0 mana shirvallah and doing 25 damage is not doing what the card says. Mountain giant costing 12 mana on the board when you have cards in hand should only happen if it’s silenced in which case the card text and any mana cost changes would no longer apply.
Cards like sap that go against the normal card cycle of deck -> hand -> board should return the mana cost to normal like it does everything else; something like pocket galaxy however should maintain the mana cost reduction. If conjurer’s calling is played on a minion that costed 1 mana to play because of pocket galaxy, it should maintain its mana cost and summon 2 1 mana minions
6 Likes
TLDR You lost to Cojurers Calling mage and Holy Wrath Paladin
12 Likes
Yup. They always talk about stuff being intuitive. This would be far more in line with that policy than the status quo.
And once it would be used in some recruit way - like Call to Arms etc. people would argue its not fair too I guess.
6 Likes
So if the person has 9 cards in hand, and the opponent devolved a 5 drop to a 4 drop they could get a Mountain Giant?
Or if they Mutate a 0 drop to a one drop with 9 minions on board you can get a Sea Giant?
I don’t like it.
6 Likes
“But that doesn’t let me beat Holy Wrath Pally and CC Mage so we’ll just leave that out. The only facor in a Hearthstones balancing is me being able to never lose”
2 Likes
Now imagine Shirvallah randomly popping out because someone cast 23 mana worth of spells and used Faceless Lackey.
8 Likes
That wouldn’t make sense. The argument is that the card cost shouldn’t revert from what it was when you played it out of hand. So mountain giants cost is still 12, you play it for four, then on the board it still counts as a 4 cost creature, since that’s what it was.
You could keep the cost reductions dynamically updating, which I think would be fun, but that’s maybe less intuitive. Still, you wouldn’t be able apply them until the card is in the game, and the card wouldn’t be in the game just because a random creature generator or discover mechanism kicked in, same as it isn’t now.
Ok ,but that also means I gonna start cheating mountain giants from the deck at wild and create a ton of absurdly combo involving cards with effects on their own cost.
You’re prepared?
It is literally to much just because " me not like conjurer’s calling".
3 Likes
Eh you wouldn’t have that as long as you wait to apply the cost reductions until the card is actually drawn. It is an order of operations issue now. Is it draw, effect, apply cost reduction? Or is it, draw, apply cost reduction, effect? You’re suggesting it should be apply cost reduction first globally, but it doesn’t have to.
I’d rather be a Necromage, summoning Grave Horrors from big walking hills, thank you very much.
1 Like
So you change only the rules that you want even if it gets totally inconsistent just because you not like a conjurer’s calling interaction…
I normally against downvote people but you’re really lucky that the forums not have it anymore because people like you is why something like that exists.
Have a nice day. I out.
1 Like
In this case, the mana cost would be its original value so this wouldn’t happen. The card isn’t in the game yet at this point so there’s no reason the card text would apply. I’m merely extending it to include in the deck and on the board.
1 Like
No. Terrible idea. And it would make no sense. Why? Because mana cost decreases or increases are only relevant in hand and deck. On the board they don’t exist anymore. Mountain Giant is 12-mana cost card by default when on board because the cost was only relevant when it was played and mana was spent. On the board it’s a 12 mana 8/8.
I know you dislike Conjurer Mage, many do including myself, but changing a core mechanic of the game to make it confusing for the rest of us is not the answer. There’s two ways Conjurer’s Mage can be nerfed WITHOUT screwing up the game; either add a new 12-mana cost minion with terrible stats, which would be tricky to do. Or HoF Mountain Giant. Problem fixed.
I actually think recruit and tutoring cards should work this way. If giants or anything else costs 2 mana because of cost reductions, call to arms should be able to pull them. Witchwood piper should be able to tutor a giant if the cost reduction makes it the lowest cost minion in the deck.
So if it’s in the deck the 5 mana recruit can Cheat out Giants as long as their cost is reduced. I guess Paladin and Shaman could easily pull it off.
Regardless, your rule has so many complicated stipulations that it doesn’t make much sense.
I would guess you are a Shaman player who wants better Devolve targeting of Giants, maybe you don’t like Even Warlock?
I do agree it might be too late to change this unfortunately as it’s a pretty drastic core change and would require a lot of balance testing and retraining but clearly mana cost changes would be relevant if it were implemented.
Like what? Nowhere in the game is it actually written that cost modifiers are removed when the card they’re attached to is played. It goes against the rule for all other enchantments, which persist through hand to battlefield movement. It also creates weird bugs when they either forget to remove it (https://github.com/HearthSim/hs-bugs/issues/1026) or remove it with the wrong timing (https://github.com/HearthSim/hs-bugs/issues/1182). Cutting that rule means less unwritten behaviors to learn, not more.
2 Likes
Do Jeppeto 1/1 minions revert their cost when played?
They currently do.
With my suggestion they wouldn’t.