Losing by completely bricking on your own draw is much different than losing to a I win Wombo Combo that has no answers no matter what you are playing or drawing in the game available to it at the time it goes off. A perfectly curving agro deck could be beat with your own perfect curve. If they print a neutral board wipe for 4 mana then we could talk. That’s the difference this particular high roll has no ways for most classes do anything about it and that’s the bad design. High roll I win no way for anyone to interact meaningfully with it is the bad design.
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As you said, Brawl and Mass Hysteria are quite capable of beating that. “You might lose to what’s left” is the furthest thing from an auto-loss.
Also, a Mage who can get some early Giants out and CC’d while following up with Freeze effects could out-smash such a play just fine.
A Hunter could have them close enough to lethal by then that Hounds + Hero power is enough to finish them off.
It’s not winning in every scenario, it’s winning in a LOT of them, but with so low odds of happening that it’s unviable in any competitive sense.
I hate “BS plays” as well, but let the memers have their fun.
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Is it a problem, though? You keep assuming a turn-4 Phaoris is an instawin, but a single 10-mana minion and a bunch of 4 or 5-mana minions don’t necessarily mean that. What happens if the 10-mana minion is Nozari? Or Emeriss? Big minions, sure, but that’s no different than a turn 3 Mountain Giant. Even in the best case highrolls, most classes except Druid have some sort of single target removal that can take care of the big threat. The additional minions can then be handled with your own board or board clears.
I guess I’m failing to see how this is any worse than the Prismatic Lens version of Murloc Paladin, which similarly had a flashy win condition but could still be answered if you understood what was coming.
Since when is Turn 4 late-game?
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I saw “4-mana Phaoris” and automatically assumed it was Floop . It was my mistake, but to be fair the situation experienced by OP is even more niche and balanced than the scenario I initially assumed.
Exactly Murlocs could be answered because Murlocs are mostly 1 or 2 health so any small AoE does the job which you can get in Nuetral with Abomination or with Zephrys Lightning Storm for 5 mana not to mention all the Class options available with almost every class having something for 1 or 2 aoe Damage for 5 or less mana. A turn 3 Giant doesn’t come with a bunch of other 2-4 mana minion it just a single 8/8 not an 8/8 + a 2/3, 4/4, 2/5 and 3/4. You deal with the 8/8 then take 11 damage from the rest. Next turn you get like a 5/6 taunt or something and take 5 mana assuming your opponent does nothing else. You just took 16 damage have no board and your opponent still have a 2/5 and 3/4 a hand full of cards and that’s if they did nothing for 2 turns after the pharos. With a Brawl they did 19 damage lets say the 2/3 is left you got the best brawl. You take another 2 for 21 damage and start your turn 6 that if the opponent did nothing after the wombo combo. I think people live in a World where the opponent wombo combos and then the opponent stops everything except attacking face. The opponent has turns in between where they can do more stuff.
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They use defensive cards Turns 1 and 2. Secrets, Air Raid, etc. So it’s not like they’re AFK. Mage goes AFK plenty and doesn’t die by turn 5, this isn’t Gadgetzan Pirate Warrior meta.
This may seem dumb but I concede when they Prismatic. I will make my loss as anticlimactic as possible.
You may not see this ever if you stick to Ranked, at high Ranks; but it’s Barnes Y’Sharrj if Barnes summoned a full board. And that combo was the highest win rate BS combo.
I think my main issue is that ‘flashy meme decks’ have become viable, to some extent. To put things into perspective, my flashy meme deck is spell-spam-hero-power mage into turn 9 Kadgar double Ragnaros… Does it work on average? Hell no…
Does it sometimes work?
Yes
But does my opponent then usually have a reasonable chance at answering it? Yes, two 8/8s on board these days doesnt seem to bother anyone…
The druid deck above was my answer to the sheer amount of aggro decks that are going around; my mage doesnt have the spells (read dust) to control it all, and my only other control-ish deck is hunter of all classes.
It feels like what is considered ‘balanced’ is progressing faster than most f2p casual players’ deck options can handle
This would be a fair observation. For most of us forum veterans, Lens/Phaoris combo is old news: even though any Phaoris board by itself can be game-winning, it has been answered by the opponent the very next turn either through a board clear or a combination of cards.
Things are answered much easier now with cards like Flik, lackeys, Rotnest Drake, Scion of Ruin, etc
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Agreed. At turn 4-6, board clears seem pretty standard. Unfortunately, the paladin class itself lacks any answer until it’s too late. (7 mana combo to make it work, and only if you have drawn them).
Otherwise, I have set up a board very similar by turn 5-6 and it gets easily dealt with,