i am calm lol, actually chilling watching movies with a beer in hand
and no, the current pool of deathrattles is terrible.
i mean, the minion based dr list is not even t4, it is even worse than that for a reason, and the reason is NOT the “support cards”. The support cards are actually excellent, it’s just that there aren’t enough good deathrattles to profit off them.
as for how we know that the supports are enough? when they can turn a single dr card to kill you through damage, then that shows that what’s lacking is actually the payoff of the minion Deathrattles, not the setup for them.
i’ve played quest rogue since it was introduced (and it was t3) till even now up to top500 eu legend.
you saying that it doesnt need draw shows that you actually have 0 experience with it. there’s a reason that the deck dissapeared when the actual draw cards it was running were removed by the rotation. All the other package was left untouched, but when the draw was removed, the deck simply died.
the flex spots of the deck, as i said earlier, were really 4 cards. those were the flex spots. Try fitting a “package” in 4 slots.
Well, I think the main thing was the deck lost broom at rotation (which made cards like the 6/3 handbuff thing kinda worth it) but otherwise… the deathrattles do pretty much exactly what you want them to do except give you board presence. The only one that really does that is Mothership. Mothership’s actual deathrattle is kinda weak, though.
I’ve played a lot of Quest Rogue. It needs some cycle/card draw to keep itself going, but not an excessive amount, and there’s lots of different card draw options. At one point, sure, there was 26 obvious cards to include. (Tenwu, and so forth) I dunno if that’s the case now, though.
but there’s a reason why now it’s not even in the charts of the meta. and that’s because of the “obvious” cards it lost, which was most of its cycle/draw.
Door of Shadows seems like it would fit perfectly in Quest Rogue. If you get extortion or Shadowstep, thats essentially 2 steps for quest activation. The other few spells Quest Rogue runs are cheap enough to play the temporary copy and get value out of it.
it could yeah. you’re also running stabs in the deck for finishing power which would be terrible to hit from Door. And it can be a dead draw due to infuse:
Basically, in that deck, when you are hitting your cheap minions (to trigger infuse) you dont need that much draw, when you dont hit those, then suddenly Door also doesnt help (because top decking it to get a shadowstep and not having something to step as an example will make you lose quite fast).
So it’s a bit of a weird one.
in general i do like the miracle like cards so far revealed more, but that’s mostly because we have no clue about the secrets.
But as i said above, i dont think the card is bad, i do think we cant evaluate it without knowing the rest of the package, it’s just that there’s half a dozen of half-finished archetypes and they introduced something completly new instead of fleshing out more one of them that got me.
At worst you dont get the temporary copy. Its still 1 mana draw a spell, and I think Infuse 2 is easier to activate than you realize.
Even getting an extra copy of Wicked Stab for a turn is pretty good for 1 mana. The worst hit off of door is door, in which you play the temporary uninfused copy to just draw a spell.
Well, some of those archetypes are from last year. If you focus of archetypes from last year, a year from now you are going to have the same problem of these half finished archetypes
it’s nice and all to get something different once in a while, like a small standalone thing that you know wont last (like they did with the SI:7), but there should be consistent themes that get constant support. Similar to how druid as an example will always have ramp. Like that, having constant support for stuff like stealth, miracle, and etc means that no single rotation “kills” that archetype.
instead we get rogue that gets one new thing every expansion and struggling to keep coherency. Pirates, burgle, miracle, deathrattle, si:7 are all “current” themes. Was there a need for “secrets” to be added in the mix as well?
we see that in burgle rogue. Even though it got less support than pirates, it actually worked better in the end because it is one of the themes of rogue, albeit on the more memey side usually.
then there’s deathrattle that they are trying to push for so many expansions and they just refuse to give what’s really needed: a couple of amazing tempo deathrattle options where the majority of the tempo is on the deathrattle itself. REally, just 2 more “eggs” and the deck would be solid. Instead they keep printing “support” cards for an archetype that still doesn’t have a core to be supported.
This time they could focus on deathrattle and miracle as an example.
The situation you describe is one they bring to themselves: by constantly introducing new stuff every expansion, it means that they either stay unfinished, are mediocre, or that when rotations hits they get gutted.
Well, there’s also that board-based and incremental decks get eaten alive by the excessively powerful control and highroll decks that are in the meta now. That might change if some tempo-y zoo decks start making a comeback… maybe. but I feel like both sticky zoo decks and high roll decks are just going to both force out tempo decks like SI:7 rogue anyway.
On the subject of “identity” I think the identity of Deathrattle rogue was meant to be tutoring out cheap deathrattles and taking advantage of their deathrattles with card cycle. (Sort of like how Mine Rogue works, but with… coins from Loan Shark or something I guess). But then they added Smokescreen and that was just confusing.
Like in theory, poison rogue wants sketchy information and helbrim in order to get extra poisons. But there aren’t any other applicable deathrattles really except maybe loan shark.
Really all the rogue archetypes do kinda play into one another. Questline Rogue gives you 1 cost cards which act as combo activators for miracle. I’m still honestly kind of shocked none of the SI:7 cards was a <4 cost deathrattle.
They even have a miniset to push more cards now, but they just kinda don’t.
I think the thing that confuses me about adding secrets now is that they have to add so many cards to kind of justify it. I kinda feel like Bamboozle/Ambush/Dirty Tricks is a really good basic, core secret package. Like almost perfect. Simple effects that benefit the user (rather than punish the opponent), are obviously useful but not overwhelmingly powerful.
Like compare that to Explosive/Snake/Freeze. Or Ice Barrier/Explosive Rune/Counterspell. That is a wonky combination of secrets, and none of them really go together. (Well Explosive Rune is great and Ice Barrier’s okay, but it’s SO boring).
So it’d have made a lot more sense to reintroduce the AoO secrets in next year’s core set and do some secret support then, but they’re… doing it now. I guess.
If we don’t get at minimum 3 Rogue secrets this expansion, then this card is a joke. Seriously…do they expect Rogue to play secrets with only 1 or 2 in standard? They won’t even be a secret then…
…like, “guess what card I’m playing???”
“I dunno…the only card you can play?”
If we don’t get 3 Rogue secrets, we better get a card that generates secrets from other classes.
When they bring back secret rogue they always print 3 of them, I don’t see why would it be different.
That’s a problem shared by all classes, some have simpler archetypes that blend together with ease, others have more specific that don’t (usually tribal). Shaman for example is a class that is usually all over the place (evolve, burn, overload, token, totem, murloc, elemental, freeze, battlecry, multi-spell) and only now in 2022 T5 managed to print enough good standalone cards that build into a good deck. Somehow it blends many of these archetypes in one, and it’s a lot of fun (see Kibler’s Renothal shaman)!
I’ve been trying to build control/value rogue since Gadgetzan with little success, and I feel we might be close to one. Hooktusk is a great late-game bomb, but pirates usually are better suited for aggro and don’t blend well with other archetypes. But after the buffs, thief rogue is shaping up to be what stitches other decks together, with great cards that are great by themselves (Tooth of Nefarian), pirates (Swashburglar, Hench-Clan Burglar, Southsea Scoundrel) or DR (Reconnaissance). All we need is better draw and a board clear (like Vanish, or at least something better than Pufferfist + Plague Scientist), and maybe a decent deathrattle pirate and I can finally stitch up a control rogue.
Im sad they removed the old secrets, im very liked it and secrets have a nice vibe with Rogues playstyle, really i would 2-3 secrets for rogues + 3 minions with supports to play with it, even in the new miniset
