Rogue and the meta problems

Multiplayer Discussion
1

dont u guys feels that with the new meta and new core and rotations almost all the whole rogue “Style” get lost ?
i mean, the whole meta is now like an aggresive plays or stacking armor aka aggresive pirates rogues, mecha mages with AoE OP Sharks, paladins or Warriors with a lot of armor gains
i mean that the rogues looks unplayable for me already, the pirates are weak minions, they synergies okay with each other but overall its just a low-medium cost poor minions aggro plays and nothin very interesting

with the rotation Rogues NOW lost almost all their DRAWING and tempo plays for combinations etc, and its SUCH SLOW atm, every game is like 10 turns+ games easy and losing end game cuz in lack of strong minions or spells

for me This class is dead now, and the only viable decks are the booring pirates aggro style or BOORING solitaire quest ehhh

the poison/weapon are killed, secrets killed, deathrattle get ZERO support from minions and got only bad spells with Smoke Screen on the head which are really idiotic, why the hell they dont finish to support this archetype and give Rogue 2 new viable minions with deathrattle :confused: i cant understand what they have in mind giving a spells to support no minions or crap/old minions and nothing new…

srsly this class loses its vibe now, and has only shadowstep as a core integral trick, all the whole other plays are a booring mess, and even the unstabble Burgle rogue gets a huge hit cuz of the lacking of card draw mechanics and tempo making every games now very LONG…

these cards need to be changed:

-Hench-Clan-burglar lower the stats of it or let it be a 3 cost mana ATM, cuz for a 4 cost its TOO SLOW to be properly used as a rogue who needs a low cost minions with good battlecries and combos

-Azsharan Vessel should have a different secondary effect instead of booring repeat of summoning 2x 3/3 pirates with stealth ehhh

-Bootstrap Sunkeneer for a cost of 5 mana is sooo HIGH and SO SLOW to play srsly, its should have lowered cost to 4 and even lower the stats in compensate, cuz a 5 mana single remove minion who doing nothin is useless for rogues and lost tempo plays…

-Blood in the Water, another over costed SLOW SPELL which have only any sense with Swiftscale Trickster and nothin more cuz its pointles without the minion…

-Pufferfirst, dealing a 1 damage to whole enemys while need attack with a weapon its aother joke cuz its useless and probably DO only 1 action cuz it will be killed next turn, and comparing this joke AOE to for example mage sharks whos can spamm easy 3± per turn with the lowering cost minions spell, makes pufferfist effect kinda WEAK… this card should DEAL 2 DMG AOE cuz its still only 1 action/weapon hit per turn to activation, and rogues are still lacking to aoe spells and protection, which makes them even more worst in actuall poor aggro vommiting meta…

for me the problems with rogues now, are the dealing with wide board of enemy aggros where the only defense to this are using our aggro pirates to kill it, while still slowly looosing due to lack of AoE spells and having only single pseudo removal pirate which COST 5 MANA + no healing abbility and low draw makes the gameplay wise booring and typical aggro “spam” to deal with enemy minions or get killed…

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2

I am playing Rogue.
Rogue now is versatile. More than three way to play in rogue style…
Only you have to survive.
.
and it really hard right now. When the board fill with 4+HP minion.

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im playing only Rogue class as my main since release with big breaks of the game, but now im playing constantly for a year+ and im totally F2P player so i can focus only on one class…

what do u mean its versatile ?
three ways to play, which one ?

Pirate playing = low-medium stats pirate vommiting + discover another pirate + ocassional single card draws and dredge + 2 or 4 damage/summon spells on average

kinda booring and feels like typical aggro play which almost every class can do with stacking the same type minions with synergies between them, its literally the same as MAGE MECH’s but without the AoE OP shark random hits + some spells

Questline ?? mehhh booring solitaire deck

Burgle ?? due to losing Swindle + Wand Thief + Secret Passage + foxy Fraud it loses a lot of tempo-combo options and draw (with discovering enemy cards) and this makes this deck kinda slow to play already

The Weapon/poison archetype are totally killed already due to no options for fast drawing
Garrote are killed too, and its funny to me cuz ppl now are hyped and liked the Curse Warlock for an imba dmg while this deck is like a “Garrote x3” in being toxic one turn plays and stacking DMG and ppl dont whine it atm :smiley:

so calling rogue a versatille now = playing any other class with stacking minions of the same type with synergies huh, whats versatille and passionate are in this ??

im tried for funn a Mech Rogue deck now, stacking mechs with some spells and synergies, and this plays literally the same in gameplay vibe as playing pirates, but are a some weaker due to no stricte class-mechs, but are playable

4

So that mean you don’t know the concept of rogue class, ‘Rogue play strange things’.
.
Poison rogue still there. Not so good but still there.
Questline is not change much as always.
Rattle rogue is better. I faced this deck once and he kill me on turn 5.
Pirate rogue is strong. Surely not in straight way.
Identity thief is more fun now when you can spam all different colossus to opponent face.
.
If you only compare other class with only pure strength, this class is not for you.
I think all rogue want in meta right now is survivability, card draw is seem fine today.

5

DR Rogue is meme, pure garbage
Poison Rogue is dead after losing the draw from Passage and Cutting class
Quest Rogue is garbage without Passage, also way to slow and way to reliant on board for damage
Thief Rogue is way to slow compared to the top decks

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6

Hench-Clan Burglar is a thief rogue support card, the pirate tag is secondary.

This card is support for a Hooktusk build, to enable you to reliably trigger Hooktusk’s 8 pirate requirement. If this were a Magic card, I guess the 2nd set of pirates could be zombies or ghosts or something, but that’s not a tribe in Hearthstone. I think the flavor otherwise fits well: sneaky pirates while the ship floats, sneaky pirates when the ship sinks.

Perhaps you weren’t around for Un’goro, but there used to be Vilespine Slayer, a 5 mana 3/4 Combo: Destroy a minion that saw extensive play while it was in standard. And while Sunkeneer doesn’t destroy the minion, it also doesn’t trigger any deathrattles of the card that is sunk. And it has relevant tribal tag, 1 additional attack power and good flavor!

It can go face, it can be Prep’d, it can get reduced in cost by Blackwater Cutlass, it could easily go 3-for-1 by killing a minion with the 3 dmg, another with shark and another that has to deal with the remaining shark. That’s a lot of value in one card. Not every card has to be 5-star power level.

Here’s where you’re really out of your mind. 2 damage aoe, are you nuts?! AOE has always been one of the Rogue class weaknesses. The thing has prime stats for its cost and can easily be triggered by Rogue with their weapon on curve. If it’s getting removed the following turn, that just means the opponent recognizes it for the huge threat that it is.

Also as far as AOE combos, Rogue has Plague Scientist in Standard now. So you could have a weapon equipped and then on turn 6 go Pufferfist + Plague Scientist to AOE destroy the opponent’s board. And unless they can kill the Pufferfist the following turn, you threaten to do it again now that Pufferfist has poisonous.

For other AOE options, you can do stuff like Wild Pyromancer + cheap spells, Sketchy Information/Forsaken Lieutenant + Explosive Sheep, Plague Scientist + Sheep or anything else that deals AOE, Shroud of Concealment + Doomsayer, Samuro + Cold Blood. Lots of options.

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7

Rogue feels like it’s kinda forced into the tempo/aggro style right now. I already miss Prize Plunderer. There is no hard removal and limited draw. Without actual hard removal it’s kind of difficult to play a more mid-range style of Rogue. Assassinate doesnt swing enough and Sunkeneer is not only soft removal, but kind of slow. The burgle deck is pretty weak because the class has no sustain also. I dunno, in a way it feels similar to classic Rogue decks (that weren’t miracle decks anyways). At the moment the fast pirate deck is all its really got to work with.

I dunno, maybe there is an okay field contact miracle list yet to be discovered. I might try to make one anyways.

8

What are you defining as “hard removal”?

9

Removal that destroys a minion. Soft removal would be cards like sap or Sunkeneer that give them back and they can be potentially replayed.

Rogue usually excels at removing tall minions. Now besides quest rogue, it lacks this. Crabatoa kind of acts like hard removal, but only up to 8 hp

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  1. how u can told Poison Rogue was here when Cloak + Cutting Class + Secret Passage are GONE OUT, this literally kill this totally so stop BS
  2. Questline okay, the same solitaire booring as always
  3. Rattle is playable but still need Rogue-own minions to put some fresh to this, cuz thers still lacks of 2-3 cards to make it viable for any serious games
  4. Pirate is just Pirate, just aggro, i make almost the same while Using already neutral Mechs + some class cards :slight_smile: nothin very impressive, innovational and interesting, just spamm low-medium minions with some battlecries BOORING
  5. Spamming colossus in a Burgle Rogue its a meme easy gimmick, and nothing for real compettetive games, and comparing it (due to rotating out cards) to getting a overal slow-down in tempo + card draws, are still a CRAP recompensation

man, dont tell me which class are for me while im playing Rogue since game relese LOL and rogues has always LOW survability, dats why Weapon rogue are killed for example cuz Cloak gets out, and Rogues havent healing/armor/taunts/AoE to keep on game for late game in typical mach without lucky stealing an armor gain or lifesteal minion as Burgle…

Hench-Clan burglar is overcosted for a Rogue, cuz she needs a 3 cost max regular minions with good battlecries/discovers, so lower his stats in compare to being a 3 mana crystal NOT 4

Hooktusk is still a SLOW uncomfortable card, in normal games u should do lethal in like 7 turn or 8, and playing most times are waste of, due to being killed by enemy nex turn, cuz this card costs 8 and do nothin in self on board, its good for long games okay or matches vs priest or paladins where we have a control in-game, but playing as a typical aggro rogue pirate the deck should have a win condition at 7-8th turn, instead theres gone something wrong huh…

still Sunkeneer its TOO EXEPENSIVE for a Rogue who should have fast-low stats good effect minions

How the Shark from Blood water can go face lol ? man its another overpriced SLOW card and im 100% sure soon no one will play it due to overcost

Pufferfist works in Demon Hunter, i mean he have a shark card who hit 2 dmg AoE if DH uses his abbility hit, and yesss the poisonous combo are good for this card

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11

I’m not sure how we’re defining “usually”, but there haven’t been that many playable “Destroy” cards for Rogue in a given rotation and there are currently 2 in Standard right now. And against any deck that isn’t running a lot of Dredge cards, Sunkeneer is hard removal the vast majority of the time.

Also with Pufferfist and Plague Scientist in the same rotation, Rogue has the ability to full clear an enemy board.

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12

Vilespine Slayer has worse stats than Sunkeener. Yet Rogue used Vilespine throughout its Standard lifespawn.

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13

The bigger problem is that in this expansion everything goes wide.

Warrior goes wide, DH goes wide, mage goes wide, paladin goes wide, even frigging ramp druid goes kinda wide with Oracle+giants.

The second problem is that there are a ton of early 4+ health minions while early rogue removal is at 3 damage.

So rogue in this meta only has the option to try to go under them or lose.

Hence why only aggro rogue kinda works now.

It’s almost as if different metas, especially a few years ago, were different.

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14

So the problem is that you have a very specific and narrow range of decks, in only one specific class, that you want to play and they’re not available.

We get quite a few forums posters with that same issue. They’re always very unhappy with Hearthstone. The rotation system sucks for players like you, because they take your decks away every year.

I am going to be honest, it could be that there will never again be a deck that you like.

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15

Vilespine Slayer would still be strong. Are… we really suggesting pirate rogue ISN’T a good deck? Because it is.

Rogue has trouble dealing with wide boards, but pirate rogue is tempo, you stay ahead of them. You make big swing Azsharan plays, you use Hooktusk to deny your opponent value or to steal their big minions.

Rogue is doing fine this expansion IMO.

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16

Rogue got a 3 mana 4/3 weapon.

Do you think there weren’t aggro/wide board decks that Rogue had to face back then?

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17

Don’t twist my words, I specifically said the opposite.

Aggro pirate rogue as I said is a good deck indeed.

It also doesn’t run sunkeneer (even WITH the pirate synergy over vilespine), it is too slow for the meta.

Same for Vilespine, it wouldn’t be run in the current meta with the current tools rogue has.

(that was my whole point, only out for rogue currently is to aggro to try to outrace because his current removals do not keep up with the meta)

That’s irrelevant. If “some” decks go wide it’s a different story compared to if “most” decks go wide.

I’ve been playing since beta and this is from my recollection one of the widest metas we’ve ever had in HS.

To top it off, apart from being wide the powercreep on stats mean that a lot of early removal that worked for rogue in the past to contain those no longer work. (specifically the prevalence of 3/4 statline)

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18

Pirate Rogue = the same Rogue but bases on Mech neutrals heh, and im wonder why no one try it on YT or talk about it, cuz its works almost the same as pirate spamm
im played already as Mech Rogue and plays vs 1 Burgle and 2 Pirate Rogues today and i win the 3 maches for example with the my Mech Rogue build

its just simple aggro vomitting nothing more pirate or mech…

and why mage wins and get hate ? cuz of the sharks easy AoE spamm and lowering cost of mechs in hand, its kinda joke, the sharks can do easy 15+ AoE random dmg in one turn stacked with other lower costed mechs wchich easy clear almost every nowadays meta-boards while making full board of minions

and ppl crys about Rogue “AoE” which are poor pufferfist with 1 dmg to every1 per turn with weapon in hand, while it can clear the board only in combo with the “give poison minion”" which both costs 6 mana to do the combo + any weapon/abbility equipped

PS: now i lost to a OP druid who pump their mana to 18, used 2x Guff (how ??) and spamm easy BIG MURLOCS + the 1 mana legendary which pump up stats bases on the mana crystals and Oracle with other buffs which are kinda JOKE plays for standard… he makes like 27/27 2x and 2 big murlocs for free

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19

You can’t afford to tank damage by running weapon into minions. Rogue is in desperate need of draw and removal. Prize Plunderar and either Passage or Swindle should be in the core set.

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i didnt realize dat the Sunkeneer “dredge-removal” is a combination card xD which makes it even more useless and hard to use in late game, due to cost 5 mana and not synergies with anythin to properly reduce it cost or activate it :confused:
its srsly horrible for rogues now, almost no AoE clears (only one with pirate+poison which need weapon equiped) + kinda MEGA SLOW removal makes Rogue booring and dead if we just dont trade pirated to mechs or other nagas etc cuz its the only protection…

The Blood in the Water needs buff too, its useless at all, high cost/low reward and works only with the 4 MANA (another slow card) LOW minion 2/2 (literally useless on board) and need the 2 cards to really be any worth in use…

overall Rogue draw and dropping minions meta are garbage now and in late game 8th turn+ its very often to runs out of fuel due to crap minions or high cost ones with crap synergies