After casting Ironbark on Raid Boss Onyxia, opponent can attack my whelps and player. His minions and weapon ignores Taunt on Raid Boss Onyxia when he is immune.
Is this intended?
Yes, since minions can’t simultaneously have immune and taunt active for the same reason they can’t have stealth and taunt active - the combination could lock the other player out of the game.
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The logic stands for stealth and taunt where being stealth deems hidden from target. Immune on the other hand is still a valid target though it does lock the board and player from attacks but its not completely unanswerable.
Maybe we can hear from Bliz if this is really intended. It would be good to know
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Similar to Stealth, enemies can’t actively target Immune minions, therefore Immune minions cannot Taunt. (ie: Taunt on Immune and Stealthed minions is suppressed until they lose Immune or Stealth.)
Immune prevents damage and prevents enemy targeting. Immune (and Stealth) minions can still be affected by non-damaging AoE effects like Equality, Psychic Scream and Twister Nether. Unlike Stealthed minions, Immune minion can’t be damaged by AoE effects, like Lightning Storm, Flamestrike, or Whirlwind.
Blizzard tends to be a little hands-off on non-bugs in the Bug Report forum, trusting players to assist other players.
At the end of the day, if you want Onyxia to Taunt, you’ll need to kill off your whelps.
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I’ve done this twice and have been able to lock my opponent down. Not sure if there was anything different that I did. I have a friend who tried it and had an experience similar to yours. Not sure what the answer is.
The answer is literally above your post. Please READ a topic before posting in it.
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The issue here is “Immune” just says “Can’t be damaged” NOT “can’t be attacked”. Taunt and Immune SHOULD work together.
There isn’t an issue. The full explanation on, “Immune” is too long to include on the card text but can easily be found and read on the Hearthstone Wiki. I will quote that full text for you:
“Immune is an ability that prevents characters from receiving any damage, and PREVENTS THE OPPONENT FROM SPECIFICALLY TARGETING THEM WITH ANY TYPE OF ACTION.”
Any other suggestions on how Immune should work is nothing more than personal opinion. Taunt and Immune can exist at the same time, just not with the outcome you’re hoping for. As already quoted above from the Hearthstone Wiki, “As with Stealth, Taunt minions that are Immune have their Taunt ability temporarily suppressed, and can thus be bypassed.”
Consider an Immune Taunt minion which can’t be bypassed; You wouldn’t be able to target it for attacks with your minions. It could attack your minions while taking no damage. You wouldn’t be able to attack his hero or his other minions with your minions due to Taunt. His board presence would become overwhelming…
The only recourse at that point would be some form of non-target spell removal. If this isn’t available, your last resort is hoping you have enough spell damage in hand or top-deck to kill him before his board presence kills you.
Such situations are an example behind the logic of how Immune and Taunt are designed and intended to currently interact.
-Valas
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Since when does a wiki trump what the card actually says? Not to mention, your statement is patently false. I’ve targeted Onyxia with any number of affects that don’t do damage, such as Hysteria and Freeze.
Wikis are typically backed up by cited sources. In this case, former Hearthstone Lead Designer Ben Brode states, in essence, that the enemy can’t target an immune character. (Footnote [7] in https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Immune#References)
The enemy can’t target immune characters and immune characters can’t be damaged. Immune characters, however, are still susceptible to non-damaging area effects, like Snowfall Guardian or Varden Dawngrasp, and they can be destroyed by non-targeted effects, like Cascading Disaster or Twisting Nether.
The owner of an immune character can still affect them with their own non-damaging spells, like Windchill.
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You cannot target an immune minion with Hysteria. You CAN however hit it with Mass Hysteria or Frost Nova since those are AoE, and not targeted abilities.
You DIDN’T TARGET an Immune Onyxia with Hysteria. Perhaps you targeted another enemy minion with Hysteria who cleared the enemy whelps, making Onyxia no longer immune. Perhaps you played Mass Dispel, a non-target AoE, which removed Onyxia’s Immune, allowing her to be targeted.
Perhaps you confused Hysteria with Mass Hysteria. Furthermore, there’s plenty of NON-TARGET freeze spells that would freeze Onyxia, such as Blizzard and Frost Nova. Your lack of video evidence for me to review is extremely disappointing as it would help clear your confusion up and/or prove your baseless claims.
Your opinions lack basic understanding of vocabulary used in the game. I suggest researching the words, “Target” and “Immune”. Try using the Hearthstone Wiki, a VERY RELIABLE source of information, invested with thousands of hours of research, and cited by excessive sources. Until your responses are based in facts rather than opinions, there’s no point in furthering our discussion. Feel welcome to respond to me with facts, quotes, or video evidence.
Your opinions just prolong a question which has already been answered in detail. The answers are comprehendible by any sensible person willing to read and try to understand.
Have a nice day!
-Valas
I don’t have video evidence as I don’t record my games. I know what I played. Beyond that, I have played trading card games competitively for over a decade and hearthstone since the beta. I understand how keywords work. The GAME says only that Immune “can’t be damaged”, NOT “can’t be targeted by opponents with any type of action”. If Blizzard is going to have immune work as you assert, then they should update the in-game text to clarify that.
Beyond that I don’t care what the wiki says or who said it. The game itself is providing incorrect information for the keyword and that is unacceptable.
Your assertions here lack basic understanding of what the game communicates the keyword to mean. The issue here is very comprehendible by any sensible person willing to read and try to understand. You however are exceedingly unhelpful and rude.
Good day.
My responses are very helpful, supported with evidence, and describe in detail why things are occurring the way they are. I know my responses are helping you because your only complaint now is in regard to the in-game text.
Looks like you’re finally acknowledging how the Immune keyword is intended to work. As mentioned previously, there’s not enough room to include all explanatory details in text for any given keyword, which is literally why Hearthstone Wiki is a very reliable source for further information. The game isn’t providing any sort of incorrect information as you claim. If it was, you’d be able to provide ONE example of an Immune minion taking damage.
If you continue to disagree, come back when you have some EVIDENCE (video recordings, quotes, online sources, etc…) that contradict ANYTHING I’ve said or SUPPORT something you’ve claimed to which I disagreed.
Until then, the correct answer will continue to be that an Immune minion can’t take damage and can’t be directly targeted. Your opinions on the matter won’t change this.
Also, I noticed you stole my, “closing argument” by copy pasting what I said instead of coming up with your own retort…
Good day.
-Valas
All you have to do is look over the keyword on Blizzard’s OWN card library. A Wiki is NOT a more acceptable source than the publisher’s OWN library.
There is NO reason at all that the full keyword text as you suggest shouldn’t/couldn’t be displayed here. So either 1) the keyword needs to be updated to include the full description as you claim, or 2) it is NOT working as intended as the effect is not consistent with the keyword.
The point of this thread was to ask/describe what we observed to be effects that are inconsistent with the keyword.
Your assertions as to the immune keyword are simply contrary to any and all official sources.
Your white knighting for Blizzard in this situation is unnecessary.
I see you’re still a bit confused with what “Immune” exactly does. Take some time to go and do a little research and I’m sure you’ll figure it out.
I don’t care to stand up for Blizzard, their greed and incompetency annoy me more than your lack of awareness with the keyword Immune does. Regardless, I’ll continue pointing you in the right direction, beginning with the Hearthstone Wiki.
The initial question was regarding Taunt being placed on an Immune minion. Do you also propose including an in-game extensive description explaining each and every possible situation that occurs when one keyword effects another? That’s certainly not a feasible request which is why, again, the Hearthstone Wiki has been developed. If you need a very detailed explanation on how these keywords function and interact, you’re not going to find it in game. Your opinions on the matter do nothing to change the legitimacy of these sources.
If you want to continue denying why things work the way they do when they’ve been explained thoroughly, then you may truly be beyond help. If you want to continue complaining about text wording, then take your complaint out of the bug report forum. There is no bug here to discuss, and the majority of players are able to understand exactly how the keyword functions in given situations.
Good luck to you!
-Valas
You can absolutely Taunt Onyxia, I’ve done it myself. Pretty sure it requires removing immune by getting rid of the whelps and then playing whelps the next turn.
There are plenty of instances of cards doing more than what is said.
For example, Wild Growth doesn’t say that if cast at ten mana, it gives you an Excess Mana card. But it does do that.
If there were a short, simple way to describe the non-targetable aspect of Immune, I’m sure Blizzard would have done it. But it doesn’t seem like there is one. So Blizzard chose to keep the card description short and simple, instead of exhaustively complete, and leaves it up to the players to discover the full behavior.
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Yes, you can give Onyxia Taunt, and there’s a variety of ways it can be done including the method you suggested. It can also occur through non-target minions such as Defender of Argus (give adjacent minions +1/+1 and Taunt).
Immune doesn’t have to be removed for this to work. However, the Taunt will be suppressed as Onyxia is still Immune.
Removing Immune from Onyxia before giving her Taunt (for example, if your opponent plays Mass Dispel) would make the Taunt now work as Immune would no longer be applicable.
Have a good day!
-Valas
No matter your opinion of the matter, 3rd party wikis are NOT superior sources of information to the game itself. I am not “confused” by what Immune does and I am not complaining about text wording.
I am reporting an interaction between the keywords that is not behaving as it should be based on the in-game text. That makes it a bug and this is the correct forum for it to be reported.
Thanks for playing, better luck next time.