Please fix wild

I’ll cut right to the chase. I am one of several longtime players that enjoys wild mode. I would venture a bet that people such as myself constitute a disproportionate share of revenue for the game. Because we buy packs and stuff.

The level of overpowered in wild has always been a little larger, and that is expected. However-- wild has become a graveyard of terrible cards that never got appropriately nerfed, and are becoming progressively more overpowered with every expansion because of new synergies.

There are a few cards in wild that need serious attention.

Coldlight Oracle is a key example. Something must be done about this card because of the Rogue’s ability to bounce cards, and with the new Spirit of the Shark, it is too easy to force your opponent to draw 6 or more cards in a single turn, and this problem is getting worse and worse. Mill is a fine playstyle but I think that if you’re going to have an effect that powerful it should be harder to pull off. A comparable effect is in Fell Reaver / Treachery Warloc, which generally takes 10 mana 2 of 3 specific cards in your deck to pull off (assuming you carry 2x Treachery). That combo is hard to pull off even with Warloc draw, and generally only lasts for one turn, but it is strong enough to build a deck around. I know that you devs keep envisioning Pogo Rogue and it is a noble idea, but when you print a card like Daring Escape it is only empowering this trash on wild. I don’t know what the answer is with this one. Maybe you add text that it cannot be bounced, or that it loses the effect once it does. Maybe you get creative with hand size (perhaps don’t discard until the end of YOUR turn?). Increasing it to 4 mana would solve a lot of problems as well.

Barnes. Similar to Rogue, it is too powerful because of the Priest’s ability to resurrect minions for very little mana. The end game mass resurrect in this deck has a power level comparable to N’Zoth, with Priest having 4 such spells, as well as ample removal. The point is this is a good deck as-is, and like Rogue, by itself is not a bad playstyle. But the interaction with Barnes is too good. There is no card in the entire game that is a better play on turn 3/4 by a considerable margin. The only serious counters are Potion of Madness, Sap, Poly or Hex/Evolve, elite removal options available to only 4 classes that must be spent on a 1/1. Coin + Keleseth + 2x Shadowstep in Rogue is a pretty good Turn 1 play and it might be the only combo in the game with a power level comparable to Turn 3 Barnes, of course the Rogue combo requires and depletes a unicorn hand and Barnes requires only itself to generally win the game. Like Coldlight, this deck is being enabled by the current direction to make the Priest class resurrect focused. Maybe you can make the 1/1s un-resurrectable. Maybe you make Barnes a 6-cost. Maybe he summons a 1/1 random Legendary minion instead of one from the deck. But please fix.

Coldlight and Barnes are bad cards because they cannot be countered except for devising a very specific deck. Coldlight Oracle for example is basically a math game of mana, if your deck has too much mana you lose under normal circumstances. So the game is basically war and in most cases, over before it started to a much greater extent than other matchups. Barnes aside from being the ultimate luck play is almost impossible to counter, especially in some classes like Druid or Warrior. Even if a Druid wants to tech in Recycle to counter this nonsense he couldn’t play it for another turn or 2, long enough for the 1/1 to have died. You’re stuck with Tinkmaster Overspark, praying you draw him almost as hard as your opponent is praying for Barnes, then hoping he targets the right minion AND hoping for squirrel. Like Coldlight, Barnes current interaction with Priest is lifeless and results in a match that is decided before it begins.

Please don’t mistake the complaints for tears. There are a lot of cards I hate (Kill Command, Deathstalker Rexxar) but they are not game breaking cards. There are some cards that are really good and have a super overpowered effect, like Shudderwock, but at least that takes until turn 8-9 and requires a bunch of other cards to be played. There have not been any other interactions I would put on this level in my years of playing.

Also Genn and Bakuu-- I am sure you understand what a terrible mistake these two cards were, but moving them to wild is not a solution. In fact the bad part of these cards effect will only be worse in wild, where there is a larger selection of cards. There is a real danger that Baku/Genn decks will completely dominate the meta once there are enough cards (especially, cough, with lazy reprinted effects like Seance). I personally think these cards should be deleted from the game even in wild, as you have already essentially admitted the card was a mistake. Short of that, there needs to be a counter for the hero power. Maybe a neutral 5 cost 5/5, Battlecry if your deck has no duplicates, Hero Powers are disabled this game.

In short, please pretend wild matters, and don’t just dump stuff there and not fix it. I get that minimal effort is spent on the wild experience but if you care that little about it then these changes should be easy to make and would be welcomed by the community. I lot of us play wild and frankly it is us who derive the most enjoyment out of the product you work so hard to create, not the regulars, and please just take like 10 minutes to long-term fix at least these major issues.

Thanks

34 Likes

I think there should just be some neutral wild cards that should either just be removed from the game entirely, or unusable by some classes.

Oracle is a fine card. rogue is the only class that can actually abuse it by shuffling 6 copies with gang up, 6 copies with lab recruiter and possibly even more with brann bronzebeard, or spirit of the shark. Then in one turn you can force 2 players to draw 4 cards for 4 mana with shadowstep. TBH oracle should just be a deathrattle card. That would solve most of the issues with it.

I HATE cards that boost your win ratio by starting in your hand by like 20% I’m looking at both barnes and keleseth. Both cards are ridiculous when played on curve. Mirror matchups are decided by which player started with barnes or keleseth in their starting hand.

Genn and Baku need to thrown in a furnace and forgotten about. There definnitely a clear issue with the two cards if they are being rotated out of standard after only a year. Blizz messed up with this one big time and everyone knows it. For a whole year the meta was defined by even paladin, shaman, warlock, odd warrior, paladin, rogue. These cards heavily limited design space and deck building. They will most likely plague wild for awhile and thats pretty unfortunate.

10 Likes

they are already in wild

right now
out of 11 tier 1 decks there are only 2 odds and 2 even decks

5 Likes

Based on that 36% of the top tier decks are Genn/Baku. I am pretty sure that is about the % that people were running Azure Drake back before that went HoF, which was considered problematic specifically because it was so common.

Like Coldlight and Barnes, they are both really only bad in certain circumstances, notably Odd Paladin. Some decks (Odd Warrior) are good but not really game breaking. But the cards were so bad that Blizzard had to make a bunch of changes to Paladin cards, which didn’t really work, and then had to make the unprecedented move of benching them early because they presumably couldn’t bear another year of Odd Paladin on Twitch.

Tbh I don’t have a huge problem with Odd Paladin or any of the Genn/Baku decks today, I don’t necessarily feel that their power level today is as overpowered as Coldlight Rogue or Barnes Priest. However it has introduced a dangerous new archetype. At some point the benefit of taking a specific card independent of cost over a permanent hero power boost will be completely mitigated by the number of cards available. The decks are the very definition of cancer and I think they threaten to consume certain classes.

In recent interviews I heard a developer defending Barnes by talking about how his supporters were passionate and I get that. I confess to having had games myself in the early days of Barnes Priest where I turned turn 3 into Barnes -> YsRaaj -> YsRaaj, or even an innocent Barnes -> Obsidian, and I have had the positive feeling that comes from the momentum swing, knowing that there is no possible counter my opponent could have, but it is not a clean feeling, it was more like I turned the game difficulty down. A Barnes high roll is unparalleled on the 3rd/4th turn. Honestly it would probably be unparalleled on the 5th/6th turn as well, but at least then you would have enough resources to counter it appropriately.

4 Likes

And I hate decks that turn Hearthstone into Solitaire. Coldlight Oracle gets old real quick, and some of us don’t want to play the hyper aggro decks to even have a chance at beating them. Flametongue Totem dodged a long-deserved nerf for two years, and it’s only fair that Coldlight Oracle is next to get hit.

7 Likes

Looking forward to this. I agree with some of your points and disagree with others =)

As long as Rogue remains so vulnerable to aggro going this route I think we’re fine in Wild but I do think this card, in particular, needs to be monitored with the tools Rogue keeps getting. As long as I am not playing Control (so aggro or Midrange) I can usually keep my burned cards to a minimum and not have my entire plan thwarted by the Rogue but… it will be getting harder and harder to do so and if the deck can cover form it’s weaknesses or just get even more lopsided matchups it could be come a problem.

If there was one deck/card in HS I want to see changed it is Barnes. Either make the actor a 1/1 forever or just nerf Barnes Warsong Commander style. The card just isn’t fun to play against when it hits. I don’t mind playing against the Priest if he starts chaining the resurrects on Turn 6 but when the engine begins on Turn 4… ugh… it’s just not a fun game to play and the WR when Barnes is played on curve is just too jarring imho.

I have a similar stance here. I think Genn and Baku are okay for right now and while 4/11 top decks might be one or the other in terms of playrate the only two I see a lot personally is Even Shaman and Warlock. The other two (Odd Paladin and ?) I just don’t see enough to make me frustrated/care about them at all and. in the case of Odd Paladin, I really don’t feel that it is too good personally.

All I want for Genn/Baku is for Team 5 to have a plan in place if they do start wrecking Wild a ton. I’m more than willing to play with them for now in the format because the cards are fair for now in that format.

Midrange decks can beat them as well and, for now, the deck isn’t insanely popular so while it is an annoyance it isn’t one that you see a ton in the game. In fairness to you and OP I do think it is probably my #3 ‘worry’ deck in the format though.

2 Likes

I like Oracle being changed into a deathrattle. It bums me out that Wild mode has become a graveyard that Blizzard throws old expansions into and ignores them. It’s more than Oracle being a problem. I feel like Blizzard feels ok ignoring Wild mode because they label it “Wild” as in “anything can happen” like that makes it ok for cards to be unbalanced.

4 Likes

Coldlight is only good vs control decks and rogue decks that run this card generally lose to aggro decks because they are too slow. First you have to draw coldlight, valeera, lab recruiter and bronzebeard. Its just a punish to greedy combo/control decks. There is already benedictus, jade idols for control decks that shuts down mill rogue completely. So saying coldlight oracle should be nerfed because they counter a greedy archetype build specifically against other decks except mill rogue is just ignorant. Aggro > Mill rogue > Big priest > Aggro (sometimes). Odd paladin can actually keep up with big priest but usually barnes on curve shuts down aggro. Thats the healthy rock paper scissors meta. They all have counters. Big priest is weak to res pool polution which odd warrior can make priest res pool complete garbage. And mill rogue loses to aggro because it acts like a combo deck. I do think that they need to print more stuff to counter these things for each class but nerfing i dont agree

Hearthstone is not about what you want to play. Its about what you NEED to play to counter whats strong on ladder and climb.

1 Like

I m gonna agree with Barnes and coldlight oracle.
Barnes is busted and coldlight oracle is stupid. I mean coldlight left standard not cause of its power lvl but because… it was too annoying. But wild players should be fine about it?

8 Likes

Yes. The Wild is not for weak hamsters. They belong to standard sandbox. Only really wild players can play in the Wild.

Wild not need any “fix”.

Because it isn’t made to please you. It is made to please the unpopular niche of guys who like to play with interations that are so powerfull that feel stupid.

Standard is were you go for a “healthy match”.

Unfortunetly blizzard hears these guys more than normal players

2 Likes

Because normal players have a local to go at hearthstone.

Be a wild player is accept.both aspects of a eternal format.

Like…

Every single content needs to be for the “normal player” or people are being a little salty because sometimes blizzard looks for other people needs?

Why it is so dificult to understand to people understand this instead of try to force others to do as you wish?

2 Likes

Couldnt agree more - its sickening how many try-hard droolers there are in wild just milkng the SKILL-LESS garbage. Its like 3-4 total cards that ruin the entire Wild mode. Why cant they just get rid of these cards or at least let us ban them? Wild is supposed to be a dumping ground so why cant the rules be changed to accomodate the non-apes that done feel like dealing with Barnes or Coldtard?

So sick of the crap in this game. Like I said, its sad that there are so many knuckle-draggers out there that just have to abuse this crap.

5 Likes

After almost every post you make I wonder… why do you even play HS or CCGs in general?

4 Likes

I agree with OP about those cards. I really dislike them.
I would be very happy to see Baku and Genn deleted from the game.
Now, about Barnes and coldlight oracle… The way they are used and abused is really getting old and, in my opinion, changing them would refresh Wild a little. Several fine proposals have been given already and I hope some day, sooner rather than later, Blizz will take action.

3 Likes

Coldlight Oracle sucks if ur against a remotely aggressive deck, like Even Shaman

This is Wild… it’s just a horrible mode. It requires constant attention of the developers to make Wild feel fair and awesome.

People complain mostly about Big Priest, but there is indeed Mill Rogue, and that one is almost as annoying for Control decks.

I wonder if Bomb Warrior counters Mill Rogue tho… definitely testing worthy.

2 Likes

The only card that needs a nerf is Barnes. He’s the only card that has no counter since you can revive whatever bs he gets for 2 and 4 mana.

2 Likes