If a player might as well concede because they couldn’t eat or steal any of their opponent’s combo pieces, is this balanced?
If the player with the OTK deck might as well concede once those pieces have been eaten or stolen, is this balanced?
I mean once I’ve seen either of these scenarios play out, I know how the game is going to end 90% of the time. That is bad design
You can’t really do anything about them. You are going to play 6 mana 4/4 get a chance to steal one of the combo pieces in this meta? And mutanus is even worse than that.
And vs spitter hunter they don’t really care if you steal one of their spitters or brann since they can play that minion multiple times. I personally dislike super aggro and burn decks so I do my quests once every 3 days and that’s about it, not playing in this toxic meta.
There are sometimes OTK decks with alternative win conditions, I think it is more healthy for the game when it is like that. OTK decks are usually much slower than the majority of aggro-midrange decks so if it only has one trick then it needs to be very fast or else it is not worth playing. For example even when APM mage was around and it’s probably the 2nd strongest OTK deck that has ever been around, there were still a few hyper-aggro decks that had like 60% winrate into this matchup, in fact the meta was already cycling over to those types of decks and APM mage was already T3 by the time they nerfed it. People justified it by not enjoying playing these types of hyper-aggro decks just to have to contend with APM, I didn’t necessarily think it was a bad meta though.
Since you literally described combo decks as a whole, destroying a fundemental combo piece let’s you win against this combo deck. So you’re telling us you don’t like the idea of combo decks?
I know exactly what he is talking about and so do you. You are being a troll and should not be taken seriously.
The player that “might as well concede” could look into his or her deck build to make something stronger.
That’s the risk-reward with strict OTK decks that rely on only the one path to victory.
This game and company have enough to criticize, but this ain’t it chief.
If this is your deck’s only way to win against combo decks and they are a large part of the meta, you need to add proactive pressure cards, deck issue not a game issue.
Yes, dismantling a decks win condition is a valid way to win games as a defensive deck. You see this a lot in aggro vs control matchups where eventually the aggro deck runs out of fuel and are relying on top decks to play cards, they usually concede at this point despite likely having more health than their opponent.
Yes, that’s how dismantling a win condition or failing to pressure a combo deck works.
How?
How? Because the game should be about resource management and board control and not whatever this is. It’s either solitaire versus solitaire or just puke up your hand and hope to win in five turns or less. That’s the whole meta right now
so what is the fix?? are you saying get rid of combo archtypes, or get rid of combo disruption? because, if one is allowed the other is necessary. so, it will always devolve to the scenario you described, when these mechanics meet.
You guys are talking about “deck issues” but I thought we were all playing highly refined netdecks that we didn’t make ourselves, so how is this “deck issues?”
DH, Druid needs serious nerfs.
All expansion is ahead, but I’m already sick of ramp-guff-scale-brann-anub-astalor 6 card giga gameplan.
BTW DK needs serious nerfs to draw and discover as well. Too many tools, TOO many.
Frost wyrm fury is a 10 mana spell for sure, and a mage spell at that, mages got a lame “summon 2 taunts” spell? And DK got this? Lame and underdeveloped.
Just lost my third game today to that freaking combo. So sick of seeing it and if they would just nerf Guff, these problems go away but if they haven’t touched it by now, they’re not going to
Don’t use Mutanus or Theotar they are probably the worst disruption in the game.
Astalor combo is easy to disrupt with secrets, play a rogue or run objection somehow, the secret counters many minion based combo plays.
Also Okani is a much better disruption than either Theotar or Mutanus because it’s effectively an objection.
If you time repeated objections you can easily win vs ramp druid, I’ve lost and won games both playing with and against this combo many times, and I can confidently say if you are relying on Mutanus or Theotar that is your problem.
I say make the combos more difficult to pull off. They shouldn’t be so damned easy to complete
Also, thanks for reminding me about Ogre Battle. That game was a classic. Haven’t thought about it in a couple of decades
ideally, i agree. but won’t realistically change unless draw effects get dialed way back.
yw. one of my favorites…obviously. 
Oh I’ve done a Brann/Patchwerk combo that ate four of the cards he needed for his armor druid combo but moonlit guidance meant he had double Denathrius and Guff gave him the mana to pull it off and OTK me that way
You got killed from full health by Denathrius?
So they played 50 minions with Denathrius on hand? Wow!
if they played ScalesX2 and Onyxia, that’s only 21. Did they have Topior on curve?
How did you kill all those 50 minions while managing to stay at full health?
Yea overall, Patchwerk, Mutanus and Theotar (less so Theo) all suffer from similar problems:
Slow, all are minimum 6 mana, more like 9 if you want to combo with brann, keep in mind that on average the combo will be found turns 7,8, or 9, so… make sure you can get in your disruption before that! That is why this disruption is soooo bad at stopping the combo, most of the time it is too late!!
They usually require your opponent to have drawn the combo pieces, this can be hard to read and is usually just luck if you hit or not.
Both of the above points are solved if you use FASTER disruption that actually STOPs the play and DOESN’T try to steal or destroy the card. This is key. The main type of disruption like that is Okani or Objection.
If you are relying on the slow disruption, I’d wager you will fail to stop combos 8 or 9 times out of ten.
With appropriately timed secret you can stop combo 8 or 9 times out of ten. See the difference ? To time, make sure you play the secret turns 7,8 or 9 and try to read if they are playing a “delay/defensive turn” which is usually centered around simply armoring up, putting up taunts or dropping minions. When they play such a turn, it usually means they either
Don’t have draw cards left in their hand.
Have combo assembled and just want to maximize chances of surviving next turn.
Yes I was playing blood DK and I was at full health and he still won
Blood DK full health?
I guess you bottom decked your vampiric bloods and Mograine.
I mean 50+ minions on the Infuse! They must have top decked Topior and Denathrius and gone to fatigue.
I just can’t imagine how you were able to remove over 50 minions, stay at full health, and not draw a vampiric blood to get out of range.
Sounds like a really crazy game.
Or did this happen before the Denathrius nerf?