My hot take is that Rainbow DK is responsible design

Multiplayer Discussion
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By that I mean that Rainbow DK hearkens back to yesteryear, when classes didn’t get parasitic packages dumped on them all in one expansion set, that dominated that class’ playstyles for the much of, or the entirety of a standard rotation.

Examples of parasitic packages include:

  1. Naga Priest from Sunken City
  2. Curselock from Sunken City
  3. Relic DH from Nathria
  4. arguably Aggro DH from Nathria
  5. Wildseeds Hunter from Nathria (debatable, this was a cornerstone in Renathal-Denathrius minion pile Big Beast Hunter)
  6. Skeleton Mage from Nathria
  7. Implock from Nathria
  8. Enrage Warrior from Nathria
  9. Arcane Hunter from MotLK
  10. Undead Priest from MotLK
  11. Concoctions Rogue from MotLK
  12. Undead (Chaddius) Warlock from MotLK
  13. Deathrattle DK from FoL (never took off but I’m counting it)
  14. Outcast/Rush DH from FoL
  15. Hero Power Druid from FoL
  16. Overheal Priest from FoL (sort of)
  17. Self-Harm Warlock from FoL
  18. Plague DK from TITANS
  19. Rainbow Mage from TITANS
  20. Earthen Paladin from TITANS
  21. Mech Rogue from TITANS (sort of)
  22. Control Warrior from TITANS (I’m counting this, the class got supercharged all at once in this set)
  23. Naga DH from Badlands
  24. Dragon Druid from Badlands
  25. Elemental Shaman from Badlands
  26. Sludge Warlock from Badlands
  27. all the Excavate decks from Badlands
  28. all the Highlander decks from Badlands (sort of)

By “parasitic packages” I mean, the strategies and the payoffs are all plainly apparent within the same set, and once those sets get rotated or powercrept, the class needs to be reinvented from the ground up. Look at Control Warrior before and after TITANS - what happens when TITANS rotates? Look at DH right now - ever since Relics and Outcast got powercrept out of the meta, the class had been worthless through FoL miniset and TITANS until it got Naga DH in Badlands (itself a parasitic package), and slow/Highlander DH is still abandoned.

Get a load of Warlock. The class is stapled together by parasitic packages. Same for Mage and, to a similar extent, Rogue.

On the other hand, Rainbow DK has been a slow churn ever since we got Climactic Necrotic Explosion in FoL, and it was clearly just a meme for that set. Remember when Sickly Grimewalker came out in TITANS and it was hot garbage?

But then, they printed Maw and Paw, Crop Rotation, Quartzite Crusher, and Mining Casualties in Badlands, alongside a buff to Corpse Bride. Over the course of the year, Rainbow DK has been coming together, and it’s only getting better. Sure, when CNE rotates, that humongous payoff will be gone, but single cards are easily replaced, and in many games you don’t even need it. The whole “Rainbow” package won’t rotate out at once.

The deck seems extremely wholesome to me because Rainbow DK both lacks a parasitic core package, and the gameplay is devoid of mana cheating or random generation (outside of Corpse Farm, which can summon an 8-drop for 3 mana, but right now I see lists only with Malignant Horror). I hope that in the upcoming Standard Year, especially with existing Highlander decks, we see new cards that are simply good on their own, or become good in association with new sets, and not cards that have to be part of a package that occupies half your deck.

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I avoided DK as a class I really didn’t enjoy (that and DH are my only classes with <1000 wins). I picked up rainbow this week seeing it trend on HSReplay and I can honestly say I’m enjoying it. There is a ton of flexibility, I think it would be called a ‘tempo’ deck but you can play fairly aggro if needed. I’ve won several games but only one with CNE and that was used to clear an opponent’s Titan not even to go face.

I so agree with the sentiments in your post. And it’s not hard to do, using your example #24 - if dragons are now part of Druid’s basic package, just print some good dragons and support cards each expansion going forward so that dragon Druid can evolve over time, and not just die instantly the second Showdown rotates out.

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I’m think we starting an era where most cards are just strong by themselves and in the long term this is good.

Also i have to say that this isn’t only about rainbow DK but probably more intense on that deck.

When we have the idea that cards have to be weak when alone and work well only under a certain frame(deck in this case) we end creating decks that just try to force those circunstances at any cost removing a big amount of player agency.

But when we have many cards that work well alone there are all sorts of directions you can build without even focus too much on synergy making both the deckbuilding process and the matches themselves more fun.
Because games will be more fluid and less repetitive without needing to use too much RNG to reach that.

Basically that formula can tone down the “BS” a little without make things boring or decks weaker than previous metagames.

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Agree with everything said in this post, just make good cards again and not synergistic packages

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Yes, I agree. I’d like to point back at something I brought up in the OP, that Badlands brought MnP, Crop Rotation, and Mining Casualties to DK, plus the Corpse Bride buff. Which is several cards. However, what separates that from a parasitic package is that you can literally play Crop Rotation, Mining Casualties, and Corpse Bride outside of Rainbow DK and they would still be good. Corpse Bride maybe less so, since there’s not really another DK strategy that calls for the big stats, but I think the point stands.

Sickly Grimewalker/Acolyte of Death/Arms Dealer plus Mining Casualties/Crop Rotation is good, regardless of your deck’s win condition. That’s something that, say, Highlander DH doesn’t have.

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I don’t mind the packages, but they should be more like Nathria’s skeleton package (about 3 cards, one payoff card) rather than like… relics. Though this year, outside of maybe excavate there haven’t been THAT many parasitic packages. Things like Naga DH are pretty flexible in terms of printing cards. I don’t think Control Warrior or even any of the Rainbow decks are good examples either. They’re always going to print cards with spell schools.

The Elemental tribe is a little different, in that you need A LOT of Elementals to keep chains going, and that’s always been an issue. But

I don’t like “bigger man” mechanics, but even automatons fit pretty well. It’s one card that plays into a broad mechanic that priests have access to, rather than a whole 5 card package which all feed into each other.

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I agree with removing parasitic design. Sadly these types of designs sell more for HS. Too many players prefer to buy a new set and know that the all inclusive package is right there. They don’t want to have to buy older cards to make their decks playable.

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I fully agree. Although I think it’s power level is a bit lacking (rush on minions please), the card itself is good design.

It’s interesting enough that it encouraged people to use it.

It’s a finisher that isn’t just an OTK.

It doesn’t have a package that are the cards obviously made for CNE and no other purpose.

It’s the style of card I wish was done more. These packages I wish were done less.

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The thing I find funny is that such players are actually paying for linear design. I have to wonder how many of them would moan if these were quest decks.

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Your opening post is literally just calling good things bad.

The word for this concept is not “parasitic.” The word for it is CONVENIENT. You are opposed to the convenience of wanting to play a particular deck archetype and having a clear choice regarding what expansion pack is best for collecting the cards in that archetype. That’s an anti-consumer sentiment. The equivalent of “what, you want extra chunky spaghetti sauce? Then buy some vegetables, chop them up yourself and throw them in the sauce, we don’t sell extra chunky.”

It dies. GOOD. Start over. You can’t achieve the reverse power creep function of rotation, aka the reason rotation exists in the first place, without the willingness to kill archetypes. It’s a Ras al Ghul approved mechanic.

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https:// www. youtube. com/watch?v=xwHJqXKwRKM&t=44s

It’s calling bad, lazy things bad and lazy. If Blizzard drip feeds archetypes over time, they can build up and adjust the relative power of those archetypes gradually rather than dumping TITANS Control Warrior on the playerbase and scuttling away for a couple years, then having to completely reinvent Warrior once it rotates. Or leave the class in the gutter like they did for 1.5 years.

It’s not good when classes literally die because they lose access to quality cards and have nothing to fall back on. Look at Warrior between the Sunken City nerfs and TITANS, or DH between FoL miniset and Badlands.

Advocating against parasitic design is advocating against feast-or-famine trends, and for greater stability. New cards are new cards, and will keep things fresh. That’s what standard rotation is for. Spread out archetypes over multiple sets, like they did successfully for years before Libram Paladin-style design came to the forefront. Then you can avoid things like the awful Warrior year or “oops all Imp Curselock / Sludgelock” like we see these days.

Do you have any thoughts on the trajectory of Rainbow DK as it pertains to the topic, or do you need VS to come out with an article next week before you can contribute?

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i’ve been saying it for years too. it’s bad to force an archetype unto a class with these packages. standalone cards where synergies have to be found for are the fun designs.

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I see we have a dc comics fan here, nice reference there.

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What you’re complaining about in this thread doesn’t match the definition of parasitic design in the video AT ALL.

It’s actually synergistic, not parasitic, to allow players to focus on a particular pack to get most of the cards for their deck.

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4 days to reply and you didn’t respond to the primary topic. Also, shame on me for expecting you to apply even an ounce of nuance and critical thinking to apply parasitic design to Hearthstone.

Plagues: slapped onto DK, no synergy with base class or existing strategies, all contained in one expansion so the entire power budget will be lost all at once, no continuing support for the archetype, will disappear entirely on rotation and anybody who enjoyed it is SoL

(That’s parasitic design in Hearthstone. You’re also free to look at all the packages that Warlock has gotten since Sunken City.)

Rainbow: organically fits into the core class mechanic of corpse management, supported by cards from multiple expansions, can survive rotation

(That’s not parasitic.)

I hope you notice a difference. You also didn’t respond to the question I asked, but I can’t expect you to:

So are you now pro-Blizzard’s business plan, after your grotesque meltdown a couple years ago? Yeah, people haven’t forgotten about that.

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There are good parts and bad parts. You’re complaining about one of the good parts here.

I still think “forever games” are bad and I’m glad that Grinding Gear Games is finally working on a sequel to Path of Exile. I’d love it if Blizzard finally let Hearthstone die and made a new quality card game, although I wonder whether it would actually be quality or not.

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I would agree. It’s not even to never make synergistic packages - I like that in sets actually. It’s that with a limited pool they tend to have just one thing or maybe two at most per class outclass everything else by such a wide margin it’s not even viable vs the “meta”…I don’t follow the whole “I’m just copy-pasting the meta from online decklists/some high level player!!11” but most people seem to. Wins are nice. But so is interplay during the match. Not just something stupid with almost no shot of defeating it, like if mecha rogue gets going early/mid game with a 16/15 stealth windfury that you can’t even stall out that much anymore since a lot of the good staple aoe cards are gone. Plus even though it feels underwhelming compared to the power creep in the game, I like both the idea and flavor of Climactic Necro Explosion as something you build towards…

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I mean Unholy Plagues and Blood plagues DO link up to the core strategies of DK (and Frost plagues are just really strong). Blood-based DK decks benefit from instances of healing, while unholy decks want corpses & bodies on the board.

The only way in which plagues are parasitic is with Chained Guardian, that’s the only card which benefits from compounding plagues. Tomb Traitor just requires you to run at least one plague card. Helya is somewhat parasitic, but honestly Helya makes it easier to run less plague cards because she makes them compound.

Relics are more an example of parasitic design, where each instance of including a relic makes the next relic better, and the idea of not running EVERY relic card weakens the package overall.

I don’t think this year had that much parasitic design. You can make a strong case for the Excavate package probably, but it’s a fairly small package overall.

Control Warrior cards are somewhat parasitic, but they’re so core to Warrior overall and there’s so many cards that interact with armor that it’s not REALLY parasitic, because it just interacts with so many different things and there’s lots of cards they could add to core or in new sets that will interact with armor mechanics.

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I think the meta is correcting itself at this point. Warrior is going back to its old deck and now DK has no deck to prey on. Lets see how sludge does now.

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If by old deck you mean 30-card reno-odyn you are absolutely right haha. Gonna absolutely dominate the meta for the foreseeable future. It doesn’t lose to plague DK easily and dominates nearly every other MU.