Hearthstone is probably better off if these types of cards are not printed in the future.
14 Likes
blizz designs this way purposely. HS is a game of zero skill for bad players.
7 Likes
If the game does not take any skill, by what measure could players be âbad?â
And if you believe this, why do you still play?
19 Likes
go watch someone like firebat play for an hour and tell me thereâs no skill in HS
2 Likes
People have been protesting against mana-cheats and infinite value for years⌠but Blizzard has deaf ears for it. Itâs like it became part of Hearthstone few years ago.
Mana cheat has been significantly reduced compared to Kobolds/KOTFT tho⌠so maybe they listen little bit. So far I know besides Mage, nobody really Mana-cheats I think (excluding 8+ mana cards).
Infinite Value isnât going away I fear. Year of the Dragon rotation already has infinte value from the Quests.
i hope we get more but little by little so it doenst get out of control
i think thats what happened on another card game and they have to change the rules to fix it
this is true, though the quests arent exactly blowing up the meta. they actually seem to be reasonably fair and balanced.
Infinite value is perhaps a broader umbrella and can work in the game under the right perimeters
I mean chess takes skill, this game meh.
Not hard to learn, not hard to play.
Claiming âskillâ in this game is overrated.
As Iâve stated before somewhereâŚ
âMana cheatingâ is integral for the health of any tcg.
Itâs existed in every card game made, for a reason. Without mana cheating, games would essentially just be playing minions on curve until one player draws badly.
Of course, thereâs far more to it than that - and thereâs a fine line between what is bad, balanced, or âbrokenâ.
But to say mana cheating is bad in and of itself is just plainly incorrect. Itâs not bad, itâs needed.
6 Likes
I have. Thereâs no skill.
For me, infinite value is ok but mana cheat is something that I find goes against the mechanic of gaining incremental mana gain each turn.
Mana cheat beats the purpose of having mana costs on cards if it can be bypassed anyway. This is the reason by BP will always be unfun to against by the cheating Barnes and Shadow essence provides. For standard, mana is best illustrated by paladinâs âcheatingâ lens and tip the scales interaction. The 8 mana cost did not matter anymore for its suppose intended design.
Mana cheat makes mana cost of cards just a visual design rather than a requirement.
2 Likes
I find infinite value in combination with other pluses (tempo, pressure, immunity to fatigue, canât be countered, e.g.), to be super-problematic. Of course, the difficulty of pulling it off is a huge factor. If you have a 3-card combo with 2 legendaries, sure, but a single card? Or Jade Druid (Pogo in Standard). Obnoxious, but as long as Skulking Geist is a thing, it has a strong counter, and takes a while to really pick up steam.
Look at the DKs, and the current character cards. I donât want to pretend to be next-level awesome at the game, but I do alright, and matches where I draw a DK, Dr Boom, Zuljan, etcâŚ, 10 turns before or after my opponent does, always seem so lopsided to me. Iâd like to see win% for those games among pro players, to figure out whether itâs just me, but man, you canât interact with those cards, and they pretty much guarantee a decent turn, every turn.
For those who agree, maybe find a way to interact with them, rather than get rid of them (they ARE pretty cool)? Like make them counterable, or do something like they did with Juraxxus, where you could kill him with an otherwise garbage tech card? I dunno.
1 Like
Jaraxxus was a good infinite-value card because he sets your total life to 15. It means that you always have to stay ahead on the board and youâre highly vulnerable to burn damage. He comes with a good drawback that limits his power.
1 Like
Reaching âno mistakesâ territory in HS is easier than MtG or Chess. Until you or I reach that place though there is skill involved because weâre not playing flawlessly.
3 Likes
The main purpose of card games was ways to get more value and tempo from synergy than you should by the Mana cost.
The only real difference from normal minions to cheat big ones is that said thing is easier to see.
AoE buffs function better with more minions.
Effects like if you do X the minion does Y.
Buffs to adjacent minions are undercosted in general because you need those minions at board.
Minion cheating you get a bigger minion via a effect.
So not talk like we not do stuff like that all the time or that it isnât the purpose of the game because that is exactly how we win games.
so aggro did I hit you somewhere that it hurts. 
Speaking of card games play MtGA and see if you will can mana cheat things easily through you so emphasize
Incoming âthatâs a different game argumentâ
Scapeshift, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Bolasâs Citadel/Command the Dreadhorde, Marauding Raptor/Otepec Huntmaster, and Wilderness Reclamation are all examples of mana cheating (mind you, I only grazed the first examples I saw from the 5 of the top 7 Standard decks). Not to mention this is in Standard, the fairest out of all MtG formats. Where were you trying to go with your point?
1 Like
How is Scapeshift a mana cheat? All it really does is replace your old Lands with new ones. If anything, itâs more like Wild Growth than anything else.
Imperious Bloodlord is a Planeswalker that can be removed before his effect triggers, costs 3 mana, and still isnât that good compared to a lot of stuff in modern Hearthstone. He puts a creature of a specific Tribe from your hand onto the battlefield, which is pretty tame compared to stuff like Conjurerâs Calling.
Bolasâ Citadel costs 6 mana (Which is a huge cost just by itself), and requires you to pay Life equal to the cheated cardâs converted cost.
And thereâs a similar trend among the rest of the cards you listed. Every one of them either comes with some sort of drawback, a penalty to its stats, and/or a number of restrictions that make it situational.
Mana-cheating can be a good thing for the health of the game, when used in moderation. But cards like Conjurerâs Calling display a distinct lack of moderation. Compared to almost any other Evolve or Copy effects in Hearthstone, itâs crazy strong.
I was merely acknowledging the existence of mana cheating in M:tGâs standard, contrary to what SupHypUltâs post implied. Wasnât trying to claim that M:tG Standardâs mana cheating was somehow more broken/problematic than HSâs (or that HSâs doesnât need to be toned down), apologies if I made it seem that way. I can agree that CC Mageâs generation potential is kind of absurd and that some other cards/decks are problematic, but that wasnât the focal point of my post.
On the topic of Scapeshift, I wouldnât consider it a âmana cheatâ in the stereotypical sense, but it accomplishes a lot ofthe same things youâd expect from reducing the cost of other card(s). Normally youâd have to play individual ramp spells/tutors and play Field of the Dead one by one, gaining incremental value in a fair and progressive manner. Scapeshift allows you to instantly bypass a lot of the legwork normally required (similar to what youâd expect of mana cheating), and is borderline problematic for a lot of the same reasons that typical mana cheating can be, so I thought it deserved to be listed with the rest.
You play it with Land of the Dead and produce 2/2 tokens. In addition if you have Tef-3 out you did it at the end of your opponentâs turn which, essentially, locks them out of all answers.
Countered, not removed. Once a Planeswalker hits the field their triggered ability will occur no matter what. Now, Sorin is FAR from broken, just correcting.