It is honestly a tech card at this point. It defends against the worst sort of do nothing decks, and that is a good thing in my estimation. If you want to play the most boring game in the world, you will definitively lose to this card.
It is played less than one in ten games for me despite being frequently in hand.
I also reject the notion that fatigue should be a win condition and KJ somehow negates a fundamental game condition because it removes that threat.
This is the kind of infinite that does not bother me, late game, non-disruptive, that allows the opponent to continue to play their cards as they see fit.
Are you trying to come off as an insufferable child? Because you are doing a great job if that is your goal.
Everyone besides you is trying to have a mature discussion and you’re just sitting here pouting trying to provoke anyone you happen to disagree with. You might want to step outside and get some fresh air.
Well one eliminates the finality of the game from fatigue death and the other does not. In the end why cap decks at 30 cards… Why not allow 100+ cards in a deck?
I mean discover allowed for duplicate legendaries to be played… why not if I have them in my collection put 6 or 7 legendary cards in a deck. Or better yet why cap card costs at 0… if I have a 0 cost card and reduce the cost of that card it should go negative and actually net me mana when played.
I mean in the end you’re free to argue that changing established fundamentals of the game is ok… but I can always argue the same thing with even more braindead design decisions.
Some things are better left not done… kil jaden and fatigue removal / infinite scaling card generation to me is one of them.
I play burgle rogue and the one thing value burgle rogue should beat is greedy control decks. I see KJ stall out so many games. Even if i win more than i lose vs it, it is still incredibly obnoxious to give a 1 card infinite that allows decks to cycle with no regard for managing resources.
Any other infinite or pseudo-infinite combo requires a lot more set-up and mana expenditure
Also when your opponent goes 50+ in hp its not that easy to close out a game with the limited reach in standard. And one of the best ways you Beat these decks is to copy their KJ before fatigue becomes an actual factor xD
How is Kil’Jaeden an infinite combo. An infinite combo would be Shudderwock or Tess locking out the game. The only thing Kil’Jaeden does is prevent fatigue. The stat buff every turn is just an added bonus.
In wild I have yet to see any game drag on because of the portal. Quite often Kil’Jaeden screws people over since they are limited to playing one or two cards each turn and and it’s random. Often you get a dormant demon that does nothing for two turns. I’ve seen more people lose trying to play it than win because they played it.
How many games have you played where the person that played the Kil’Jaeden drew more than 5 demons from the portal?
I can confidently say I rarely see anyone make it more than 5 turns after the portal has been opened. People pretending like it adds an extra 30 minutes to the game when that is not the case. Either you win because the portal limits what they can play or they win because you don’t have an answer for the few big demons on board.
I doubt KJ prevent any fatigue. Games don’ t go that long after KJ is played. How many games do people play KJ when they have no deck left and how many turns do games continue after a KJ is played. I doubt any games were actually long enough to prevent a single fatigue if you just drew from your normal deck and KJ just gave you an extra random demon every turn instead of replacing your deck with infinity portal.
There were variants of dungar druid that ran kil jaden… and warrior as well ran it and it most certainly prolonged games and prevented a large amount of fatigue damage.
Pretty sure some of those terran shaman matches near the end also did kil jaden fatigue prevention too.
You’re in some aspects arguing a 1 mana deal 29 damage to the enemy hero card would be ok because it leaves 1 health left on a full health hero and I would argue such a card is not ok.
I guess to further expound the card has upended certain match up (mostly slow vs slow)… those matchups were heavily impacted by RNG… and with kil jaden being a mostly necessary card in such matchups its amped up the RNG impact even more. No one likes to play a 40 minute long match for it to be decided because you drew that demon that damages you and your opponent drew that 8 mana demon that attacks face when your hero attacks face.
These takes about it not being useful for fatigue are unserious takes. It is specifically ran to prolong games and avoid fatigue.
It makes control decks have to run it because other slow decks run it.
A Kil’Jaeden mirror is the most obnoxious thing i have ever been a part of. I dont even run it in my decks. Sometimes i just have to discover it from my opponent to have a chance to win xD
Its just about who can play ceaseless last or generate more ceaseless than the opponent. If both players already used ceaseless its just a silly rng demon slugfest
Clearly you don’t play it or else you’d understand it’s not a win condition card. I play against it more often than not and rarely does playing Kil’Jaeden win the game for me or my opponent. It’s a feels bad card that prevents fatigue damage. It’s not nearly as strong as you think it is.
In my op i said it doesnt matter what the power level is. The effect should not exist in a game where resources matter.
The only reason the card sees play is to avoid fatigue and prolong games where the person using KJ runs out of stuff. It is used as a win condition. You run out of stuff to do so you play Kil’Jaeden and wait behind all your armor or hp for your opponent to die. It is bad design.
In wild a card like this is not an issue at all because every deck that is viable in wild has inevitability.
Its only an issue in standard, because control decks have to run it to beat other control decks that run it. It becomes a pointless zero-sum game.
It should not exist the way it currently does because the endless portal is only used to avoid fatigue and drag out games to win matchups decks that run it should be losing.
Even cards with similar effects required more set-up than this. Elysiana was a 10 mana 7/7 and only shuffled 10 cards. The treasure dragon required you to play a certain number of dragons to activate… and also only added 10 cards.
Look at the standard decks from the last few expansions that use KJ. They all have a TON of cycle because they dont have to worry about drawing out their entire deck knowing they can just play a decent body for 7 mana that removes fatigue for the rest of the game.
These decks are built around the fact the KJ is included and they dont have to be concerned with managing resources and card advantage.
It is bad design because it makes card advantage and resource management mostly irrelevant.