Would it kill the card? No way, in decks that “play it as intended” as a late-game win condition, it would be just fine (pal/warr/etc).
When not in a matchup involving an aggro deck, the game just plain feels bad when it’s a a) rush to Kaz, and b) RNG rolls that the treasures will work well in the matchup.
It’s not necessarily that the card is SO SO OP (play aggro of course), but it’s that in its current form, it shapes the entire meta, and no 1 card should hold that much power.
I’d honestly be much happier if the card was removed from standard, and I’m someone playing decks with it in it.
No I don’t think Kazakusan needs more pre-conditions to play. What it needs is instead of getting 10 treasures replacing your deck, instead you keep your original deck, but you add as many treasures to your deck as you played Dragons this game. So if you played 4 dragons, you get 4 treasures (not 8).
It basically needs to become a valuable card instead of completely busted nonsense that it is right now.
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that doesnt sound like a win condition
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Kazakusan should not be a win condition. It single handedly ruins creative deck building. Slower matchups are currently all about who safely activates Kazakusan first. It completely invalidates the rest of the 29 cards, and invalidates what happened earlier in the game. It is extremely Toxic and unfun gameplay.
You can increase the requirements but the number of dragons available to each class then needs to be evened up. I get the feeling the suggested change is intended for classes with a better dragon selection currently.
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Yes I agree that it won’t be 100% fair if the number of treasures is proportional to the number of dragons as some classes have more access to dragons and dragon discover effects. However it is still much much better than randomly deciding games off a 10 sample of absolutely busted treasures. Currenly in slower matchups whoever plays Kaz first wins.
Yeah I think this one card is single-handedly bogging down the entire meta.
There’s some really cool decks out there begging to be played, but more than half the meta seems like “kaz” or “counter kaz”, which is just pushing creative decks out.
As someone who mains a Kaz-included deck (control pal) I honestly can’t wait for them to crush this card; honestly just a full ban would be fine by me.
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Yeah , they are literally killing their own revenue.
I just run Kaz in value decks and the rest is draw / removal, and it’s enough to win games. No need for any cool legendary cards.
I’m pretty sure this card was created strictly to sell a specific card set, and also to create “turnaround” opportunities for players. But the card is beyond busted for Standard play.
those two sentences are saying the exact opposite things.
if you need to rely on the “rest 29 cards” to “safely activate kaz” then they most certainly are not at all irrelevant.
and they are exactly what happens “earlier in the game”.
p.s. and that’s coming from someone who absolutely loathes kaz (disenchanted him the first time the nerfs happenned, never bothered to recraft him.
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The thing about creative deck buildign is bullcrap. There is no such thing in HS unless you are creme de la creme and everyone copies your deck later on.
Somehow i doubt you are one of those people, so do us a favor and find better excuse.
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Bad news, I checked with the Reality Department and it’s a win condition and it’s going to remain a win condition.
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I don’t see why this is healthy for the rest of the cards in the deck.
Again, the problem is NOT Kazakusan. It’s Guff. Period. Guff.
Guff hero card is a huge problem. It makes the game extremely hard to balance when one of the classes has access to 20 mana pool, plus draw every turn. But so is Kazakusan as can be clearly observed in the Masters tour currently ongoing. The slower matchups are purely about who gets to play Kazakusan safely first. That’s extremely unhealthy for deck building and for gameplay.
While I agree it might be an issue in the Master’s Tour, the Ladder meta never follows what they play. I don’t think it would be a good philosophy to nerf a card that over performs in Masters but doesn’t cause a problem outside of Ramp Druid decks in Standard.
Masters should just ban or restrict the card.
I don’t see your point. Kazakusan is just as big of a problem on ladder. Yes we have a hyper aggro meta where Kaz is currently less relevant, but any time you meet a slower matchup, it’s about who plays Kaz first. It’s not fun at all. The slower matchups are supposed to be a healthy “break” from defending crazy aggro all the time, and the fact that these matchups are all about Kaz is truly sad.
I want to quit the game and come back after this is fixed, but I’ve just started teaching my kids the game, and don’t see a better alternative ATM.
Can’t we just make it a complete meme deck so no one plays it.
“On Game Start: If your deck contains ONLY dragons, create a custom deck.”
Oh, but they would most likely still win games…
The only 2 decks running Kazakusan in the current meta are Control Warrior and Ramp Druid.
Control Warrior is perfectly fine. Ramp Druid is not. What other decks do you see running him?
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Dragon Paly also runs Kaz. That’s not the point.
The point is that it wins games once played, and that is extremely toxic for deck building and for diverse gameplay experience.
What??? I’m starting to doubt you’re a legendary player, because that is complete nonsense. There are a variety of win conditions when control decks play each other. Obviously there is fatigue. But even a single minion on board that cannot be cleared is a win condition. E.g. a 6/6 that hits you without counter for 3 turns is 18 damage. Sometimes you bait out all of their big clears (Brawl) and play a big board that can no longer be easily cleared. There are tons of win conditions. Hearthstone lived through 7-8 years without Kazakusan just fine.