Just wondering about AI.RNG

I return to play Hearthstone after long breaks hoping to see that the developers would choose industry standard RNG, rather than the AI selection scheme that has been in use for many years. I do not understand how meddling with the RNG is helpful. It certainly does not add to the enjoyment, only the frustration. Sometimes I wonder if I am ever playing real players. The predictability of opponent draws, especially the consistently miracle saving draws, is nothing like a legit card game. There have been a few themes that have stoked my will to binge. I would dust a lot of old cards, buy a small number of packs, and grind the rest. It takes less and less time before losing that feel of immersion. To be frank, a card game only has one option for immersion - convincing RNG. So, now I just dusted everything. I have 21k dust waiting for a time when it is announced that Hearthstone will be using true RNG always for eternity. Until then, may RNGzus be with you all.

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It’s not - by far - as crazy as you say here BUT as someone who likes to watch and analyse patterns, I can definitely tell you that the a.i. rng in this game is coded in a very lazy way.
You’ll see the same patterns everywhere. Duplicates in cardpacks, duplicates from the same random cardeffects in consecutive matches a.s.o.
My best recent example would be “Blink Fox” during 3 matches in a row: In 3 consecutive matches in row the same card drops the same random card from my opponent’s class in my hand. Was it a bad card and should I be sad? No. But it was a good showcase how the rng in this game is anything but simulating “randomness”.

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Not saying you are wrong, just pointing out: The human mind will always see a pattern, even if there is non. Look at a floor covered with tiles. Even if they are the same colour and pattern, your mind will try to group them, draw lines, etc.

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Which is the same argument that everyone is using here to shut down these thoughts. Problem is: The rng in video-games actually has to use patterns because true randomness doesn’t exist in videogames (it’s impossible by default). I’d argue that the infamous Unity Engine this game is using is VERY BAD at hiding this fact.

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Why so aggressiv? I did not want to “shut down the thoughts.” I only pointed out, that the mind tends to see patterns where there are non.

For me the question is more: do I feel cheated? I did once play a game, where I could predict, when I would win again. I stopped playing it, because I hated the manipulation. So if I felt the same about hearthstone (wethter true or not) I would stop playing the game.

Seriously.

  • Matchmaking is predictable. I have tested changing one card in the deck to predict matchmaking results. So far 100% correct about the classes and decks matchmade.
  • Remember Keleseth? That card drew at double the natural rate.
  • Marin the Fox only gave Tolin’s Goblet, which usually caused me to burn the next drawn card.
  • My first arena used mage. It never gave me a spell. After one game the opponent felt the need to tell me that I needed to use spells with mage. Thanks buddy.
  • The first deck that I made using Archmage Antonidas I literally went 10 days without seeing that card drawn. This was at a time when games rarely went past turn 10. Although one game went to 29 cards. Another game went to ooc. Twice I had to look to verify that the card was in the deck.

These things do not happen with legitimate RNG. I get the feeling that the AI selection tree rarely defaults to standard RNG, if ever. It feels like the AI.RNG used is an attempt at engineering specific experiences. A long series of matches feels more like the forced results of a slot machine AI rather than a card game.

Predictable matchmaking: So you always got the classes you expected? I mean, this could also mean, those classes are played more then others.
Keleseth: I mean if you want that one 2 mana minion, you would mulligan hard for it, right? You would most likely throw away your whole hand to get said card. So the chances to get it, will be higher.
Don’t play arena or Marvin. So I can’t say something about them.
Antonidas: Of course you did not mulligan for it, like you would for Keleseth (it costing much more mana). But saying you went 10 days without seeing it, does not say much. Because you did not say, how many games with mage you did play in that time.

:see_no_evil:
Do you feel like you are desperately defending your belief that Hearthstone card draws and matchmaking are not manipulated by an AI selection scheme? These constant posts make it seem like you feel that way.

Listen. I understand. Part of my point was that players enter a computer card game with the expectation that industry standard RNG is the only operation responsible for drawing cards. To have that expectation ruined would destroy your feeling of immersion (connection) with this Blizzard product, as it would the majority. I am sorry for making you feel like you have to defend their product, but, honestly, the way they chose to code was a design decision that served their purpose. They do not need to defend it, and fans do not need to insert themselves to defend it. The problem that is well exampled by your posts here is that this expectation of unmanipulated RNG is crucial to customers. That is why you feel defensive about a random company’s product. You do not want to feel duped, as if by deception. That is totally sensible. It is a normal way to behave. Bro, this was why I started this thread. I felt that it was important for Hearthstone devs to recognize that their design of the AI.RNG was flawed from the get go. You have helped me prove that point, so thank you for your contributions to this thread.

Lastly, in case cognitive dissonance still influences your willingness to acknowledge the true design of the game, consider the patch wherein it was promised that arena card options would better reflect that class and would cause less lopsided results. That alone is an admission that AI.RNG has been at work. They do not come straight out and say it. Why? Who knows. Maybe they know it will harm that feeling of immersion. If that is the case, then why do they employ it with secrecy to begin with? That was my concluding question. Ultimately, I want to encourage the devs to do away with it. Engineering experiences by poorly simulating RNG is not the best path, in my belief. I want to help them make a better product.

I really like discussing with you. Not being called “defender of Blizzard/Activision” or being told, that I have “cognitive dissonance”, but I guess, this is just your style.

What I really miss is your argument. You told me, Blizzards RNG is not truely random, and showed me some examples to prove your point. Fine, I told you, why I think these examples could be seen otherwise (like small sample size, some classes played more often). Now you could continue like “my x friends have the same experience.” Or you could show me some statistic. I am interested in your point of view, you could try to convince me. Stating somebody has a cognitive dissonabce, the moment he disagrees with you, does not help your point.

The next: please explain to me, WHY the RNG was made that way. Blizzard wanting to make more money? Them being lazy? Like I said: convince me.