Just complaining about Marin in Twist

Multiplayer Discussion
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I really love the concept of this twist format.
There are some heroes that I don’t like the design of, or more exactly I don’t like the huge gaps in design.
Some heroes are designed for grindy games while others are designed to be explosive.
It would be a normal thing in constructed where you’re the one responsible for the cards you put in your deck, but in twist you are bound to the preconstructed decks. Add to that the lack of consistency due to most of them being highlander, the weakest decks struggle even more by design of the format.
It’s even more absurd when grindy heroes like C’Thun have very few cards in their deck compared to other grindy heroes, you can’t even try to fatigue or out value your opponent
But if it was just that, it would be fine

But I can’t hate enough the design of Marin
Playing against marin just feels like rolling a dice that has 5 ones and a 3. If you don’t play a deck that can threaten to kill them by turn 4, odds that you win just vanish as soon as you see its portrait
If you let them reach turn 4, the game just becomes a wave rush. Each turn they will dump a board with stupid stats for the turn, and they will kill your minions and burst face damage
Want to outvalue them ? Good luck because their base deck has 45 cards, 55 if you count Sky Mother Aviana
Still want to wait for them to be out of fuel ? Too bad their deck has Ignite for infinite and increasing burst

I don’t have a problem with decks that can have a few explosive turns, but Marin is absurd. You can board clear them 5 turns in a row, they will still dump a lethal threatening board next turn, because they can’t run out of fuel.
More frustating than that, it really feels like there’s no skill involved
Thorim has to manage overload and board presence
Leeroy has to manage their card draw while the opponent has discounted cards

Marin just plays whatever they topdeck. It’s not rare to see a game end by turn 8 while they have not played their 3 left cards of the whole game
All of that while their turn take ages and you’re just here waiting. 2 Minutes of them playing cards, your turn takes 15 seconds, and you wait 2 minutes again watching them dump their whole deck without thinking

My last game against a Marin lasted 12 turns
I had priest.
I was lucky enough to get all my board clears, which is highly unlikely
It was far from enough to deal with their 8 waves of board, which is what they can basically do every game

Aggregating the cards they played, each mana they started their turns with resulted in 5.25 of stats on the board in average (including damage from hand to face and minions, not including damage from attacking with their minions, not including bonus effects and card generation)
Over 12 turns !

And it’s like that every time if I can’t kill them by turn 4

This hero alone is able to make me hate the mode and it really saddens me

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Then you should have won. Even doing two damage a turn you would have exhausted their health pool.

Mulligan and play for aggression, not control in this match up.

Didn’t someone else even post earlier that they can’t even win a game with Marin at higher ranks? I’ve seen it go off, but I usually just kill them before they can get started.

I’m not an expert, but Arfus, Thorim, Kael, and Leeroy seem like they would farm Marin.

I see Marin maybe one in ten games after I got to Platinum.

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Yeah good advise
Would be great if it was applyable

How do you do 2 damage a turn when they dump 15/15 of stats on the board every turn, while clearing your board, and dealing face damage, and your deck has 0 burst ?

(also they have a few free healing in their deck)

You’re assuming every deck can play aggressive, would have been great to read the line where I stated I played priest. I admit I didn’t explicitely tell it was Xyrella but still

Bright idea, next time when the game starts I’ll make sure to switch hero and deck

Thorim and Leeroy sure, but if I wanted to play hyper aggro I’d just play even shaman or pirate rogue in wild
Arfus and kael can blank their first turns. They can have the edge, but they definitely can’t farm Marin

I’m playing at diamond level, ended last month at diamond 8, currently diamond 7
Out of my 56 games this month, I faced Marin 13 times, that’s almost 1 every 4 games out of 28 heroes

The only other hero I saw more than 4 times is Kael’Thas 9 times

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Advice.

The first choice would be not to play such bad decks in the first place, but if you insist on jamming square pegs into round holes at least keep your frustration to yourself.

No, I’m assuming every deck has a more and less aggressive approach and you’re so focussed on controlling them instead of winning your own game.

So, you’re saying that you had bonus stars from previous months but your MMR sucks from playing bad heroes and you’re complaining about your pocket meta now?

Because after a pretty good win streak Marin disappeared along with all the controlly bad heroes that get farmed on turn four.

I don’t see more than three different heroes.

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Your whole reply just shows how you missread the entire topic

You’re focusing your answers around balance and how I’m picking bad decks, where all my complaint is about how the hero has been designed.

A single hero should not prevent you from playing half of the options in an entire mode.
that a hero does not see play because its own design is bad is a thing, but when you can’t play it because of the design of another one, there’s a fundamental design problem.

Last time I checked this forum was public and we were free to express ourselves.
I gave my opinion which I retroactively think is constructive on why I don’t like the design of the hero, the frustration didn’t make me writte a pure venting topic
If you don’t want to read opinions that are not in line with yours you don’t have to read nor reply

Please advise me on how to perform an aggressive opening with Xyrella to beat Marin by turn 5 since it’s what you’re assuming I should have done. What is the perfect opening I should have targetted ?

I’ve been keeping on playing various heroes just like I did last month, which made me start this season with 2 more bonus stars than the previous one making it 10. If playing “bad heroes” makes me have a diamond MMR maybe they are not as bad as you assume

Im complaining about a specific hero
You’re the one that brought your own personnal experience as an argument on how popular the hero is in your pocket meta, which does not change anything to the design of said hero which is the main focus of this topic

And how does your pocket meta have anything to do with the design of Marin ?

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Have you ever played a competitive ladder game before? If your goal is to compete, you meta or you lose.

It’s how all games like this work and acting like it’s shocking or bad design is ignorance.

No, you’re welcome to tell everyone about how you shoot yourself in the foot if that’s the look you want. You do you, broseph.

I’m not here to help you learn to ride a bike, sorry. Maybe study the deck and think on it, idk, that’s the traditional method of improving in games.

Ranking and MMR are not the same thing.

Only because it kicks your tail… lol.

Because marin isn’t a top hero yet here you are filling a bathtub with salty tears. Marin is fun. Lots of other heroes are fun.

If your goal is to play jank, sit on a rank floor and stop caring about results. Concede to every Marin you see and move on.

No, that would be too much to ask. It’s just easier to cry until they nerf things, isn’t it?

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Do you realize that even in standard mode, when a single archetype dominates half the meta, it’s a problem for every one ?

and making things up is lying
Where did I state it was shocking ?
Where did I state that having decks stronger than others is bad design ?

Again talking about playing bad decks which is not the main topic, please stop redirecting the topic on what you can’t stop thinking about

Then don’t give half statements if you don’t want to finish them
You’re the one pretending you know what I should have done, either make your point complete or don’t start it at all

Please elaborate on how I’m having a bad MMR with a ranking that is improving over time, starting higher than your own reference that you used as an argument

Yeah surely because of that and not because of the 4 reasons, unrelated to the deck I’d be playing, that I’ve listed in the first post of this topic

I’m verry sorry if you can’t differentiate balance and design, but as long as you don’t understand that
“An unfatiguable, ever-spamming, always top-decking hero with excruciatingly long to unfold turns”
is what I consider bad design unrelated to balance, you’d be off-topic for whichever argument you’d try to advance in your replies

And your know-it-all tone, self-centered view and petty remarks only demonstrate that you do not come accross that post to try to understand what is being discussed since at no time you’ve ever replied to any of the design issues I’ve addressed to begin with.

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Except I did.

I don’t think there’s any design issue to be solved.

I think it’s 100% a mixture of skill issue and personal preferences.

Marin isn’t oppressive and is fun to play. All you want to do is take away everyone’s fun who isn’t playing one of your approved decks.

I said it started in platinum, I didn’t say that’s where I play or where I stopped.

I am a couple wins from legend and haven’t seen marin in twenty games. There are much more compelling issues than marin in the mode.

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Where did you reply to the design issue of every Marin turn taking ages because of all the animations ?
Where did you reply to the design issue of the deck feeling like it requires not skill and just relies on throwing every top-decked card and see what it leads to ?
Where did you reply to the design issue of the deck being able to toss bigger boards than any other hero in the mode every single turn, while starting said turn with almost no card in hand ?

Says the one supporting the idea that people shouldn’t play decks to have fun if said decks are not meta

How is your pocket meta related to the elaboration of how a bad MMR can be attributed to an improving rank ?

10

Where I said I don’t have an issues with it. I don’t see any design problem. The animations actually limit apm and are a feature, not a bug. Your opponent gets to play their turn, then you get yours. This is not an issue.

This is not what I said.

I said you need to pick. You can climb or you can play what you want, but there will always be a meta. This is a normal thing and design will not magically eliminate this issue.

Because you aren’t matched by rank anymore. MMR and rank are not as highly correlated as you think they are.

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Great, end of your argumentation. You’ve participated in the debate and it could have ended there. But no you decided to attack me instead.

It would be an argument if Marin was actually impacted by the time they have to play.
Since they know they can dump whatever they topdeck they play their cards on whatever is a target and almost never run out of time to end their turn.
It’s not a limitation if it almost never limits your actions.

Never talked about any bug

When one player consistently has to wait 2 minutes every turn tracking the 14 cards their opponent is playing, I’m sorry but there’s an issue.

Apparently not since I’m supposed to concede a quarter of my games according to you

which is mostly a question of balance which is not the topic

Which is not the design issue I’m pointing at

You don’t seem to understand the question
How is your pocket meta related to the elaboration ?

And it’s well known that when you ascend and reach higher ranks than the previous season, you end up with a worse MMR
I’ve seen Marin consistently this whole month and you said it was because my MMR dropped, which doesn’t make any sens to begin with, and is an assumption made with no evidence

12

Yes, there’s an issue with the player’s attention span that isn’t going to get solved by the designers.

Again, there is nothing wrong with a player playing their cards on their turn and taking their entire turn to do so.

This is a you problem, not a game issue.

No, you don’t like the definitive answer because it ruins your “poor me” narrative. I’m sorry facts got in the way of your feelings.

And the only reason you came here to tell us about it is because you keep losing to it, which you say is unfair or poor design or whatever you need to say to avoid the truth … it’s a you problem.

Sorry the rocks beat your scissors. Maybe another time it will work different.

I’m done. You keep working in your salt mine and I’ll keep enjoying my game time.

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Again making things up
Never talked about attention span, that’s not the topic
Not the first time you talk about things that never were the topic

You haven’t given a single answer to how a bad MMR can be attributed to an improving rank
You literally never explained that the 3 times I asked you
Each time you just talked about your personnal experience, that’s not a definitive answer

Question that I asked to understand how my MMR is suppoed to explain that I see more Marins than you, which you have not elaborated

And once again you don’t understand the whole point of this topic
All of this is just what your little brain is making up because you can’t understand that players can have constructive arguments about things that affect them negatively

“which you say is unfair or poor design or whatever”
That’s just proof that you don’t understand the goal of this topic, you’re not even trying, you’re just here to be contradicting an opinion that is not yours

You were done since you first said “you do you” and “I don’t see any design problem”
You just kept barking because you didn’t like that some one doesn’t like the same things you do

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Nice of you to do a Tl;dr of your own contributions here without even knowing it. Hilarious self own, honestly.

Good for you that you can laugh at yourself.

I’m sorry your opponents are taking their whole turns to play their own cards and have fun, maybe blizzard will scold them for enjoying the game so much and make you feel better.

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I wonder what its like being a jerk to everyone who has a different opinion, dosent it get tiring?

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When that “opinion” is that my opponent’s shouldn’t use their cards on their turn or use their turn timer to play the game, it’s asking for it.

It isn’t that it’s a difference of opinion, it’s that it’s a ridiculous complaint that your opponent is (gasp) playing their cards on their turn.

The horror, right?

I’m only shocked more people haven’t called them out about it.

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If you actually read what they said you’d know that the complaint was that Marin feels bad to play against (generally speaking). Instead of having a discussion about the topic like a normal person you instead spent your time misrepresenting the argument, demeaning them for no reason, and just overall being a jerk.

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… because the opponent plays their cards and takes their whole turn, which is allowed and not a problem.

… that the complaint was bogus from the get go.