Personally I think card DRAW has gone too far. Because it turns out building your deck with a strategy and then drawing 10 extra cards over the course of a game is better than just randomly generating 10 extra cards.
Mixture of both imo.
At least Blizz has (according to rumour) acknowledged that the draw “issue” is on their radar.
Yes, card draw and generation have gotten to bonkers levels. Mages are playing evocation decks that generate a handful of spells that generate more spells that generate spells within that. And god forbid they manage to get a single apprentice out there or Vargoth, it’s just spells and spells and spells. And there’s no way to play around their hand, because they could be holding any 10 cards. Part of the problem is that quests have incentivized this, with quests that literally require card generation.
The RNG has always been a problem, and it’s gotten dramatically worse over time. I hate that most matches seem to hinge on a single RNG output. One cast of clever disguises can be the difference between winning on turn 7 versus getting stuck with 2 useless cards in a 30 turn game.
The problem, as mentioned above, is that there’s much less interaction between the players. Most games I play it feels like I’m just watching the other guy manage his hand for 3 minutes every turn.
My biggest fix would be to make all cards cost at minimum 1 mana, no matter what. The endless spell chains from mages are simply exhausting, and really ruin the flow of the game when players can just keep fishing for whatever perfect card they want.
4 Likes
Like said above it isn’t about the powerlevel.
It’s just that excessive card generation is on an extreme nowadays where you:
1.Can’t read opponents hand.
2.Can’t win the game by managing your cards better at long games.
3.Can’t count with extreme powerful buildaround cards not appearing out of nowhere at decks that never would dream at put it in their lists.
There is no problem at card generation by itself. It’s just that nowadays it is both to much and too unrestricted.
Cabalist time into cabalist tome was both rare and an extreme tempo loss.
What happens nowadays isn’t.
7 Likes
Agree with you guys. Everything in moderation is good. Taken to extreme, it can tilt the boat too far.
I don’t think there’s much “reading” in Hearthstone. There are 30 cards in the deck and you’re allowed 2 copies of most cards. Just play around the cards you know are in your opponent’s deck, they probably have it.
I don’t think there’s a deck in Standard that tries to do that and doesn’t generate cards. Warlock, Warrior, DH, they’re about drawing 10 extra cards a game and wins. Rogue and Priest are about generating extra cards to win, Mage is about randoming spells out for a discount. Hunter is Midrange, has a lot of face-punching power. That’s it, that’s your meta. You still have to conserve your tools because everyone except Hunter has a bottomless hand.
But a lot of buildaround cards don’t work if you don’t build around them. Sure, you get a DQ Alex at the end of long game between two Generator classes? Pretty good. But as a Priest, I hate to see DQ Alex show up in my hand most of time (Skeletal Dragon ftw) because she won’t be active before the game is over. Muerte is AWFUL if you’re not a Res Deck. Thanks, Cat, I really needed that 1/2 back.
Now, I’ll agree with you on the mana cheats. Ysera, Yoggs, Solarion Prime, DQ Alex… I don’t think it’s fine to just drop 20 mana worth of cards and have that be “balanced” because it’s random. I think Priest’s version is fine because, like you said, there’s a Tempo loss for that resource generation. For Priests, making cards costs mana and you still have to pay full price for the cards when you play them.
We might as well get used to it all, though. Rotation is a long way off. Not going to see draw & generation nerfed across the board.
2 Likes
right now maybe. but we were used to be able to read oppenent hands.
For example
playing against shaman
I know they have hex.
they kept a card in their hand for multiple turns.
I try to bait their hex. and pruessure them till they finally play it before I play high hex valued cards in my hand.
same with mage and polymorph. …etc
Now I cannot really play around any of these cards. cause mages would just regenerate multiple spells.
so my best option is ignore what they might have and just play and hope for the best.
Yeah, it even goes beyond reading hands, because you can’t even play against their deck anymore. Priest plays infiltrator or statue and I kill or silence it, ‘phew got that out of the way without too much trouble, only one more to handle’…
JK, they have res, psychopomp, mass res, Vargoth, etc. They start the game with 2 copies of a card, and somehow end up playing the same card 10 times. And the only potential counters are priest or mage class cards that disappear/control/shuffle.
It’s very frustrating to play when deck-building and strategy takes a backseat to RNG.
This, I think, is the crux of the matter.
I always just like to play that way and therefore love the amount of card generation with Discover and RNG. But I can see that many people dislike exactly that.
The best would be if we could have custom game modes. Some people can play with less of this Discover/RNG card generation and some with maybe even more of it.
It’s simply too much RNG. The game already has RNG built in with natural card draw. I think they should restrict discover to no longer give more discovery as an option.
Excessive discover and card generation is nonsense and is eliminating player agency. If they want to give players more cards to avoid fatigue, then increase the deck size incrementally until they find a good balance.
Random is ok. Discover is ok. Card draw is ok. Balance is what’s required. Nerf cards into oblivion and fix this casino mess. And for the love of god THINK about what you print in the future.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Edit: words
1 Like
Well if you are having fun with this system then it’s good for you. I mean I understand the appeal of this.
But the issue here. Smart plays is taking a back seat while most of the games feels like A game of snakes and ladders.
Less skill involved and more RNG.
It’s ok for card games to have certain amount of RNG. I mean you shuffle your cards in your deck and draw them randomly.
In order to minimize this drawing Randomness, you add more draw cards. Drawing increases the chances of getting the right cards.
Having many drawing in your deck reduces your tempo plays And the cards needs to make up for this loss with their value.
There’s a certain balance needs to be made when building a deck. But thanks to lackies and other card regeneration, this becomes less and less of an issue.
Carnivorous Cube would highly disagree.
And did you somehow forget how DR Rogue was hated until it got nerfed to meme status back in January?
We have that. It’s called playing against your friends. Take advantage of it before Blizzard releases a Tavern friend pass which unlocks that mode in the future.
Kind of. I was thinking of crazier things like Wondrous Wisdomball, Anomalies, etc. And it’s also very cumbersome as you need to have to do so much setup with like asking people and such. We don’t have a proper social feature for people to meet for such things, it’s always just “you and me” which works if you know exactly with which you would like to play with but not so much if you “just want to play some games”. Do you know what I mean? So maybe even more important first might be some better social features like “guilds” where like-minded people can meet and easier find partners to play with. But then I would also like some crazy stuff like “At the start of the game shuffle 30 Scrolls of Wonder into your deck.” etc. And it’s not like we couldn’t have that as there’s litterally a card from the adventure for that. A passive treasure called Book of Wonders. It shuffles 10 Scrolls of Wonder so you could put 3 of it into your deck. More RNG. Moar! Friendly duels we already have where you can agree on using more RNG cards? Cute. But nothing in comparison with the true insanity that could be possible with real custom modes.
Yeah it’s going way too far, so problematic in arena.
I remember a few months ago I played against a guy who generated 22 arcane breaths from 3 arcane breaths from his deck.
The discover mechanic is way to overpowered, when it was first introduced in Karazhan lots of the discover cards had weak stats - sacrifice tempo for value. But I guess the devs forgot about that, you can just look at all the DoD discover cards and every single one of them (mainly the dragons) have *decent stats and are quick picks in arena.
1 Like
There is RNG card generating and there is Discover RNG generating. Discover you get 3 choices, that’s 3 increasing % of getting the card you want/need because you can’t get repeats in the selection. Each card diminishes the pool. So it makes people feel they are getting screwed or doing the screwing because of it (just depends if if you’re doing the discover).
When discover came out it was great because the game didn’t have as such broken cards… now that those cards exist, to have such easy access to them in discover if they weren’t in their deck to begin with. Or to generate more than the 2 copy limit can be quite unfair(uwu games aren’t supposed to be “fair”… I know).
All and all i think the discover mechanic needs a work on. RNG as a whole is fine the way it is.
Yeah I am also expecting custom cards but I bet it wouldn’t come anytime soon unless the majority of players talk about it on here and Blizzard must do it then.
Except that DR rogue isn’t exactly what you expect from DR decks and more of an handbuff archtype the way it was used.
Do you mean custom modes? Because I didn’t talk about custom cards. In fact we would just need a mode where we have access and can play with those awesome cards from the adventures like Anomalies, Twists, Treasures, etc.
For me all of this rng isnt fun… everycard drawing another one from its top hat…