Isn't this buff too much

Multiplayer Discussion
1

What were they thinking making Fetch! 1 mana?

I made a similar thread about the 1-mana draw 2 spell Warlock got, which I found completely ridiculous at the time.
At least that card had consequences for playing it, but Fetch! doesn’t even have any restrictions.

At worst, it’s a 1-mana minion cycle, and at best, it’s a 1-mana draw 2.

Plus, it doesn’t align at all with the other so-called buffs, which are just smoke and mirrors. Raylla going from a 2/5 to a 2/6? Just so they can say, “But we did a BIG buff patch back then, don’t you remember? Why are you asking for more buffs?”

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2

It’s even better than just draw, it’s more often a straight tutor (which is basically just even better draw). I agree it’s ridiculous power level but I guess that’s where we’re at now or something.

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3

They made multiple one mana draw a bunch cards for Rogue. Sensible card design has left the building a long time ago.

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4

Can someone tell me what Raylla going to 6 does in real time?
Is one health really that significant?
'Cause in Wild, I do not think it matters. I expect the card dies the turn after I play it.

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5

Yes this is nuts. I didn’t think the buff would be 1 mana. It’s ridiculous how far we’ve come.

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6

It’s only in hopes it survives slightly more often to get more minions.

Imo, nothing big.

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7

I wonder if they will ever revert Novice Engineer nerf? Used to be so nice being the opposite of Loot Hoarder, but it’s been a 1/1 for so long now instead of a 1/2…it isn’t even about it being played, to me it’s the principle of it.

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8

Well, call me repetitive if you want. I’ll stop speaking out about Team 5’s treatment of mage when their treatment improves.
They gave the class nothing. If anything, they took away yet another wild deck win condition, which would have been fine, had they replaced it with anything at all.
But no, Team 5 hates mage players, and if this doesn’t demonstrate that, then players are willfully blind.

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9

i don’t even remember novice engineer being a 1/2… but loot hoarder should probably have better stats than it because deathrattles are slower and usually worse than battlecries. but loot hoarder doesn’t see play either now because miracle salesman is better. so maybe loot hoarder could be 2/2 or something i dunno and engineer could be 1/2

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10

Not where I play. Other classes get to set off their own DR’s and then play everything for free.
But mage can’t have a tutor or cost reductions, or even get it’s wild cards un nerfed.
But, If another class steals mage cards then they get them discounted.
Team 5 hates mage players.

11

It was, in a galaxy far far away, long long ago, a 1/2 battlecry draw a card was apparently too strong and meta warping and so it was nerfed to a 1/1 despite being an analog to Loot Hoarder…I guess Blizzard did not like her inventions

12

Team 5 only likes anything that is Paladin. Hunter, Druid, Shaman, Rogue, and Warrior.
If you aren’t playing those classes, then you might as well not exist.
Right now, they are pandering to DK, but I guarantee it gets nerfed before long, and they go right back to serving the aforementioned.

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13

hunter isnt doign great this meta

after reading your post i thought it would have a tier 1 or tier 2 deck but …i couldnt find a single deck !!

that explains the buff the class is doign so bad VS doenst have a single tier 4 deck listed

14

Ehh, not really, my sludgelock is also not listed

For reference, they listed Elemental mage, which had 62 games played in whole top 1k, but didn’t list Sludgelock, which I played 250+ games of in top 1k in that period and even reached top 100 with it

It’s basically impossible that the tier list is meaningful at all. I couldn’t do this with 90% of the decks which ARE listed

VS has some inherent biases. I’m sure it works just fine in D4-D1 and Legend, but then again, if you consult those lists, you put yourself at a disadvantage, because the conclusions you gain from looking at bad players piloting certain decks can only be wrong

Follow VS at your own peril.

P.S. I’ve lost 80% of games against hunter in the last week or so, even 2 min ago I’ve lost one - it’s always the same list, the one spamming rush/lifesteal minion (Egg hunter?)

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for us mortals, is it a good source to know what is strong or should we look elsewhere?
Half the time, I don’t follow the things you say for why a deck isn’t good. So, should I just use HSR or something?

16

When you say “inherent” here, do you actually mean it?

The word “inherent” means there is no choice to be anything else, no agency to change. The only solution to inherent problems is to COMPLETELY discard the source of the problem, and substitute in a replacement. To have an inherent problem is to be irredeemable in a particular regard.

I do believe that human beings are inherently biased, but… well, so is everyone else. Inherent biases are not a reason to choose one human or group of humans over another. And we can’t substitute VS for nonhumans and have it be an improvement.

17

If that’s the meaning, then no, I didn’t mean that, but

existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.

that’s more like the meaning I had in mind, because if they change their methodology of tracking opponents instead of users, they become nothing special and lose most of the advantage they have.

Or rather, “have”, because most streamers and pros don’t use Firestone, so top 1k stats are incomplete, to say the least.

Actually, we can xD

It is, yeah. It’s a good source for everyone, just not the best one

If I agree with 90% of their stats and then post proofs to contrary for the remaining 10%, it’s in your best interest to use that to complete the picture of the meta, if you don’t want to/don’t have the time to watch streamers.

The best source are the streamers, because they:

a) play against best players/pros, so you have free scouting what the best pilots play and how,
b) have hundreds or thousands of players in their chats backseating and leading to quick and optimized plays

Only after that come the stats

If stats agree with streamers = good stats

If they don’t, something’s fishy, need more data. Doesn’t mean the streamers are right, but because of a) and b) they usually are

If you only have yourself, us and stats to go by, compare the stats between ranks and see what changes. If nothing changes, the deck(s) are strong for sure, in all ranks. If stats change with ranks, then look at the top ranks, and only trust those stats with big popularity, because low samples are fishy.

And then just ask on the forum or reddit WHY is something as it is, if you can’t figure it out.

That’s how I learned and that’s still how I learn.

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18

Sigh.

Permanent - means you can’t change it
Essential - refers to the essence of what it is to be something
Characteristic - as an adjective, this used to mean that it has the characteristics (noun) that would be used to define a thing. For example, earning a wage is characteristic of employees. Admittedly, this word has undergone changes of its own over time, eroding “characteristic” from being a near synonym of intrinsic, to a near synonym of typical. (Sadly, the meaning of the word intrinsic is not itself intrinsic.)

I like archaic meanings though, so I’m not giving you any of the three. They all meant intrinsic, and the only reason “characteristic” is included is because the definition of intrinsic is out of date.

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VS uses both Firestone and HDT data.

20

I beg to differ.

When you find a better explanation for why 62-game sample of Elemental Mage made it into the tier list/playrate list while my 250±game sample of Sludgelock did not, then maybe I’ll change my mind.

But so far, the only explanation is that my opponents overwhelmingly do not use trackers so my games haven’t been recorded.

Other explanations I have disproved already, with screenshots