I remember original Secret Paladin. That thing was Op for quite awhile, but I can’t remember how long it went on.
Heck, it was so good even I played it back then lol.
Mysterious Challenger. That card was insane in it’s time.
You really didn’t play much during the Freeze Mage/Time Warp days huh
I did. Exodia Mage… That was JTU, right? But it became insane in KFT, I think. I also remember that they nerfed it to 8 spells in AOO which pretty much ended it in Standard as I recall.
I never played it. Burn Mage and Secret mage were still a thing then and so I just did those. I always thought the deck was way too slow with too many combinations you needed to know.
You keep acting like mage plays that card for three mana, but last I checked mage has a pile of discounts or tricks to play that for less. In fact, at this point if a mage actually plays a secret from hand at three mana they are doing it wrong.
It’s disingenuous to compare them at full mana cost.
Sure.
But it doesn’t change the fact that it still shouldn’t even cost 1 mana.
And not changes that paladin also gets far less disrupted than mage if they actually have to play it from hand.
Also the card has 67% Winrate because paladins have a entire different kit than mage.
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I don’t dispute this at all. I am simply telling someone who always cries about mage to stop derailing a thread about a paladin card with a false comparison mage qq…again.
In Standard? Really? They have one discount (Game Master). You have to be complaining about Wild, where every card is allowed, (Mage isn’t the only class that enjoys access to every card) or you are mistaken. One discount does not a secret deck make.
And Oh MY Yogg is a secret and therefore there is nothing wrong with comparing it to other secret classes.
It is perfectly within the realm of fair discussion. Sorry that bothers you.
If ALL 5 nerfed cards are Paladin cards, then that may hurt them. Anything less and likely still no. 1.
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Incanter’s flow isn’t a thing? Ring toss isn’t a thing? Primordial studies?
That’s just off the top of my head.
Again, saying the mage spell is 3 mana is a disingenuous comparison and the false equivalence is your go to whine about mage unfair, etc.
And if you compare it as a secret only, without false mana cost narrative lies, it’s less powerful than counterspell.
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Actually it isn’t.
Targets of oh my Yogg are random so if your opponent ever has any board presence it’s an actual possibility for his spell turn into a removal targeting his own minions instead just to start.
That to not talk about shadow council transforming your whole hand or it transforming into spells that just can’t resolve and being exactly as equal as counter spell.
Just the fact that your transform something that would be bad for you something else is already very powerful.
It also backfires at random. I have played it and had my own board wiped with it. The fact that it has a random component makes it less reliable/consistent than a straight counterspell.
It’s often as simple as the coin turns into innervate… which is essentially the same effect.
The sword has two edges, but counterspell always does exactly as planned.
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I know in standard warlock is weak, and Blizz dont care about wild, but in wild, control warlock is super strong… especially with all the taunt demons, bloodreaver guldan and the weapon that summons free demons. I think their only weakness is Mozaki or APM mage (OTK decks).
Probably the best “nerf” i could see for OMY is simply to verify the resulting spell has a valid target. That would clean up a lot of the “its a one mana counterspell” griping because it will at least always result in something. Probably would still be played, but wouldnt feel as icky.
I’ll take Things I Didn’t Say for $400 please, Bob.
Exactly, no one complains about Rogue getting carried by lackies for almost two years straight, or Hunter and like all of DoD, but Paladin gets decks based around buffing or secrets without being a total joke for a change and everyone is calling for it’s head.
Makes ya think doesn’t it.
The statistics surrounding paladin is what makes me think it’s overdue for a nerf or two. I’d feel the same way if paladin were replaced by hunter, rogue or anything else.
This has 67% Winrate.
Deck of lunacy had 69% Winrate.
So…
Try to argue as much as you want. The fact is that this is stupid powerful.
A by stupid I mean it’s near auto concede territory (said by actual data).
So it being far more powerful than counter spell is the average and not the exception.
I haven’t considered that OMY might actually be a better card than Counterspell. At its lower mana cost, I might be more inclined to include it in decks than Counterspell itself, really. This is not to mention that OMY can be tutored and played via SotF, too.
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… no.
You can cherry pick data all you want, but data doesn’t make decisions.
The deck has synergy all the way around it, it is lightning fast, and omy is played by the sword more often than from hand.
Did it have a 67% win rate when it was released during dmf? Oh, wait, nvm, it wasn’t until the rest of the parts were added that decks even ran it with any consistency.
Except it isn’t. It isn’t even the highest win rate card in the secret paladin deck, honestly.
It’s a good card. Classes are allowed to have good cards that you don’t like.
I agree that paladin needs to be slowed down, but I just don’t see OMY as the correct choice. While it may be tilting for many players, it’s not the reason paladin is mowing people down.
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This is true and is the same pitfall in thinking many players fall into when pointing at Tickatus as the ‘problem’ with control warlock. While both cards (Tickatus and OMY) suck to play against, neither are shown to be problematic in terms of the relevant statistics. One can argue that the numbers don’t matter (and many players do) and that these cards simply feel too bad to play against, hence justifying nerfs. Combined with the rate of play of these cards, that line of reasoning might hold some weight (or so T5 states). But, again, objectively, it isn’t these cards that account for what are perceived as problems (paladin’s high WR; priest’s poor warlock matchup).
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