Absolutely. Skepticism is perfectly fine and plenty of people here agree.
The problem is with all the people who take it a step further and claim exactly how the game is rigged. Not a single one of which can be replicated btw.
Not certain, but I think he was just giving an example of how a fair MMR system could place you against a counter without ever looking at your deck. Don’t think he was stating that Hearthstone does this.
And I am not 100% stating that I am sure it’s rigged, I’m just maybe 60% inclined to believe it probably is based on my thousands of games. Anyone who assumes you can’t have fun even if the game were rigged are also making assumptions though. It looks like a bias from an entirely different viewpoint of everything that must be correct must be proven and that statement at least doesn’t hold true for me for a computer game, it wouldn’t make much difference to me if tomorrow I found out the game was rigged.
We have already established that matching is not random. It is based on MMR. We know that MMR is a function of your wins and losses and the wins and losses of your opponents because EVERY MMR system is based on that.
So if having a match system based on skill is “rigged” to you, fine.
But most of the people are saying the game is designed to make you lose. This is false. It is designed to match players based on skill.
My example is an over simplification. In truth there are multiple players in a bracket of MMR and it will match you with the closest available player in your bracket and expand the bracket as queue times increase.
From the players in your MMR range, you are given a random opponent.
No, it implies that you lack enough KNOWLEDGE to know how much you are missing in your understanding.
I flew rockets to mars, too, bro!
I am the greatest player of all games ever.
See? We can both make fantastic claims on the internet!!
But even if both those things you assert were true, you would still be wrong in your assertions.
I notice you flat ignored or intentionally hand waved away the most sailent part of my post.
Start here:
I won’t hold my breath, though.
It would probably have some sort of a value string that is neutral on 0, each time you win a game it would go up by 1, each loss it would go down by one. Then each card would have an on mulligan/x turn value based on previous performance and it would only have to increase the weighting for you to draw that good card on a favourable turn after a loss streak or an unfavourable card on such a turn after a win streak.
That’s at least how it looked from about 500 games of using patches the pirate, he would always seemingly be in my starting hand after a mulligan if I went up a few games, now coincidence or not that is something I don’t really care to prove or disprove, but we see other instances where the opponent drew the one card that could prevent your win condition and I am the kind of odds player that thinks in percentages, there are only 30 cards in a deck, often you know every card in the deck.
Its not a conspiracy theory, its proven fact theres an algorithm looking at wins/losses (potentially other factors) to determine who your opponent is. The fact alone that players encounter a specific group of decks based on what they play is sufficient evidence.
It does not matter which deck im losing to, the losses switch based on whatever deck you decide to use.
A couple google searches on blizzards track record for a company as a whole and it soon becomes apparent that anything is possible.
Where? Where’s the proof?
Plenty of people have adapted to and overcome this so called “Rigging.” So something else other than the game must be the reason these people can’t win.
What you described is MMR. It sets you up with your best opponent. A lot of competitive games do this to have a fair game.
This only proves the popularity of certain decks on certain points of the ladder, not a rigged system.
There it is again. The conspiracy theory for which you still have zero evidence just like every other post bringing this up. And also once again, this have everything to do with your losses, not wins.
What’s that? They are a game devloper?
Match makers are designed to make you loose or win depending on your mmr period this is known fact.
Any system that is designed to put against a tougher opponent because your playing well is designed to make you loose. It legit takes 0 brain cells to see that.
Well yeah…eventually. You obviously understand how a MMR system works, so I’m confused as to why you think Hearthstone would need to take it a step further and specifically select opponents with decks that can high roll.
This isn’t needed. Even if you ignored the large amount of RNG in hearthstone, which will definitely sprinkle in wins/losses when otherwise expected, a MMR system will get players to a spot where they aren’t always better than their opponents and thus start losing more often.
Higher skilled opponents and a higher rate of top tier decks is expected the higher you climb and I don’t see any reason why this wouldn’t naturally lead someone to experience more losses.
Also, the words ‘rigged’ and ‘random’ get thrown around a lot here. When people say MM isn’t rigged, I assume they mean beyond a normal MMR system. When people say random MM, I assume they don’t mean completely random (as in literally any player at any rank), but within the parameters of a normal MMR system.
Anyway, a lot of rigged threads atm, so if my response doesn’t make any sense to what you are trying to argue, I apologize for getting mixed up.
Maybe he plays at the wrong times, maybe he doesnt know when to stop when hes on a loosing strike. Playing to legend is just banging at a wall untill everything is in your favour and you break through.
Started yesterday at platin and had a winstreak of 12 yesterday into d2 with priest and all of a sudden i just faced hardcounters and mulligan started to get really worse, nothing worked at all anymore, after 3 straight losses i called it a night. So you cant say people dont know how to play and looking for excuses.
You suck it up and try another day. But that the game balances your win rate in a rigged way is sometimes more then obvious.
The truth is people aren’t as good at Hearthstone as they think they are so they look for any reason that isn’t themselves as the reason they aren’t performing as well as they think they should.
You can overcome rigging by playing a lot. Thats how the system is designed.
You can climb but you may not climb to fast.
But this is something many players have experienced. Somehow you suddenly get into some sort of “pocket meta” that hard counters your deck. As if the algo wants to test you. So you switch to the counters counter. Only to suddenly run into a wall of counters for your newly chosen deck.
There must be many players who experienced this. And its difficult to explain this by “the algo makes you play better opponents”.
Better players doesnt explain you suddenly getting into a pocket meta of counters,and when switching deck instantly the whole pocket meta switches you counter your new deck.
One reason why blizzard might do this is to smooth out the curve.
Rng has such a high impact on the outcome of this game that you would see wild and prolonged swings. Blizzard thinks these wild swings are bad for the player experience so they want to soften the ups and downs.
And to soften the ups and downs the algo kicks in after a certain win or loss streak.
You can still climb but its a slow process based on a grind. You have to raise the internal mmr so that the algo thinks you deserve to win more against better players. And raising this internal mmr is a slow grind,because the algo works against you when you are on a winstreak. Which is why no BG player gets to even 16k in the first few weeks of the season.
Its not meant to be an excuse for anything. It is fair and the ranking is accurate because the system is the same for everyone.
I dont think its rigged its just that there are usually alot of polarizing matchups so if you dont use an extremely OP deck that is good against all/most decks in the meta, some matchups feel rigged. Of course the obvious solution here is creating a balanced game/meta but with the devs incompetence, bias and feeling based balance testing this is very hard to do.
How many games does the average player play in 1 hour? 8-12?
How many people are playing Hearthstone at any given point? Thousands?
TBH, I don’t see how anyone outside of top 100 legend can claim to experience a pocket meta. You are playing against a tiny fraction of the active players. In the time it takes to finish 1 game, dozens, if not hundreds of different players have both logged on/off and switched decks.
Facing a counter doesn’t mean you are playing a better opponent. Facing 8 counters in a row doesn’t mean you are facing better opponents either. Queueing into a shaman 1 game doesn’t reduce the odds of me queueing into one the next game. If you think it’s reasonable to have ever been matched against a counter once, then why wouldn’t it be possible to queue into another?
I disagree. It’s quite simple. There is no algorithm outside MMR based matchmaking. There isn’t a program searching your deck. Only your mmr rating is getting SCanNeD.
And the algorithm isn’t working against you. If you’ve lost, you were outplayed or had some bad luck.
Finally, ONCE AGAIN there is zero posted evidence with a decent sample size for HS posted along with explanations. It’s a card game. You draw cards. You can draw well, you can draw bad. Same goes with how well they are played.
Well i dont know much, but i wouldn’t rig a game for peeps to lose so that hey would pay, but like other mentions just a balancing rig so that one doesnt win too much, otherwise they wont buy.
Most of the resources would be spent designing and developing new products to covet, to elevate status in game, be it fancy gold collections, new supposed power cards…and anything to hopefully enhance game gameplay for longevity continuity and growth.
What if you keep the f2p crowed or the low value customers as cannon fodder for the high value whales they never face the patterns we experience all the time.
Like millionairs never facing every mens and everyday problems like you and me because they pay for having the best life possible.
Problems are something for the poor and middleclass not for them.
Anyway thats something i would do, to please my high value customers who spend thousands of dollars.
So when they play 1 hour every second day or even once a week they have to win, because i dont want them to stop buying every 3 month all the shop has to offer until they have all the new portraits amd golden cards.
In real life rich people get allways treated different no matter what service they need, why should it be different here.
This game is designed for people who like to collect stuff and have money because its a hell alot expensive. If you smart you can f2p to a certain degree and dont miss out. But as a free to play title this game is not out of generosity made for us.
Like 1 or 2 % of playerbase spending thousands of dollars on new cards and stuff, that is the target group, we are just npcs so
the whales have something to play against.
I would have implemented a system which looks like this:
F2P and low value customers = 50% good matchups
Very good customers = 70% favourable matchups
Whales = 90% favourable matchups (we also dont want them to get bored winning all the time)
And a system that gives you more value the more you buy. So the game can put you in the right catagorie when it comes to matchups.
Thats something i would do.
And yet we are here, 8 years in with several people delivering on Blizzard’s workplace situation and no leaks.
Why do people always figure they are so smart? This is something every 10 year old knows dude. Nobody does not believe it igging because they believe in Blizzard.
You aren’t reinventing the wheel here.
I’m curious; what brand of tinfoil do you use?