Ignite was a Good Design? Thoughts>?

Interesting.

If you want an answer that isn’t fueled by hate the answer is yes.

It’s interesting to note that the card in reality is very weak and in a fair world should even be buff but blizzard did oversee the hate towards anything that goes infinite and made the card underpowered(a fair version of it would be with the base damage being 3).

Other thing to note is that decks envolving it were usually made with cards that are actually bad design as:

Sorcerer’s apprentice
sorcerer’s gambit

So it ends being remembered as finisher for not really that fun strategies but i consider it kinda unfair to say that it’s this card fault since you could use actually better burn for more damage output at short term in most decks.

About it’s balance there is a very simple math to deal:

For mage cards the balance of damage from hand is something around 2 mana for each 3 damage:

2 mana
deal 3 damage with an upside

4 mana
deal 6 damage

Taking classic cards as reference.

For ignite it just means that the card don’t make the cut to any mage deck alone.
Not even in classic hearthstone because it starts at 2 damage meaning that to even reach the standard of 3 damage by 2 mana you would have to cast it 3 times. Get the math bellow:

2+2+2= 6
2+3+4= 9

Just the fact that it will stop you from drawing other cards during the process make ignite 100% impossible to be run out of the type of decks were it was.

The card is so bad in daily use that you would see it either as:

1.Combo piece for very specific decks.
2.Ant fatigue tech card.

2 Likes

well it renders the whole fatigue mechanic pointless, as a player you should be punished for being greedy and drawing your entire deck before your opponent.

some players will even note what kind of deck they are against and NOT use their draw cards when the situation demands, fatigue adds strategy and depth to a game,

this card negates fatigue > complexity making games more braindead = bad

4 Likes

Sincerely?

No.

As the game is played nowadays there isn’t even a point to fatigue anymore because the really greedy decks don’t get things out of their decks anyway and combo decks will just kill you before.
Fatigue is really pointless and it’s a decent design choice for it to be.

Not draw cards will just stop you from having your game plan going and give the opponent the time they need to figure a way to win if you’re doing well.

priest vs priest matches happen and those can last a very long time, fatigue exists to serve a purpose and it is doing that job regardless of if most games go there or not.

any kinds of mechanics that bypass this are bad mechanics, they didn’t print unsee saboteur because everyone loved jade druid!

  1. You did say the wrong card.

The card you want to make a citation is probably skullking geist.

  1. 1 mana card in general are stronger than the entire rest of the game by design to push tempo oriented play. This is even more true for spells than it is for minions.

It’s only natural that at some point a 1 mana hate card would be printed due to that. They just did take the jade idol hate as oportunity for doing it without backlash.

While it’s true that give feedback is important. When you exagerate and let your feelings take control over you then you turn in nothing but a pawn for others manipulate.

oops yep my mistake, it came out I think the expansion or so after jades, pretty sure its intention was to counter jade idol

That wouldn’t be fair. The card literally exists to allow the mage to get a constantly scaling damage spell. I think if it started at 3 mana deal 3 the card would have been better (3 mana deal 3 is just better than 2 mana deal 2) and would have been worse for where it was degenerate.

But really the card seems designed for some sort of “Cast fire spells from your deck” or “draw fire spells” card that didn’t exist.

Actually infinite means infinite.

It would be exactly the same for where the combos were coming from.

I know being rational is kinda dificult for people when they’re talking about how they feel about something but:

For where it was used it literally means nothing as long as the amount of damage it done each cast was atleast 1.

Not admit that is admit you don’t have basic math skills.

And mean nothing means you can put it at a fair amount to no prejudice.

I don’t really think there are bad designs, just bad designed cards.

“Win the game” can be gated in a card if it’s cost is appropriate. In this light, I think Ignite works as a card as long as it’s slow.

Even Ignite spam in fatigue can be played around by just dumping boards. For maximum damage, you cycle a single ignite per turn, which is relatively slow.

What may have brought it over the top was the mage quest at the time. As a single card, ignite is fine.

Um, what? Was this meant as a response to what I said because it makes no sense to me.

Ignite as a 3 mana deal 3 makes it worse for the infinite plan because it’s more expensive and harder to work into your curve. But better as a card, because 3 mana deal 3 is better than 2 mana deal 2. So it’s starting off way more reasonably.

Who said 3 mana deal 3?

2 mana deal 3 with an upside is the standard of any barely playable mage low cost burn since classic.

As long as this standard isn’t ignored it’s very dificult to make mage unplayable.
It can not be tier 1 but atleast tier 2/3 it gonna be somehow.

The problem with ignite is that it is bad compared to even literal classic cards.

Ignite was bad.
Rune orb was also bad.
And molten rune gonna be bad for the surprise of no one with hearthstone knowledge.

This is how it works:

2 mana burn in mage that deals less than 3 damage is bad and we not need to even read the rest of the card text.

Unless you wanna do some really stupid upside like “get 3 random spells” or in ignite case “next one deals the double”.
Then maybe but i doubt anyone would like this or even consider balanced.

You’re having doublethink. You’re trying to convince yourself that Ignite’s upside doesn’t matter because muh 3 damage. But Ignite was never put into a deck because of how good it is early game. It was put in to transform Fatigue from a liability to a wincon.

Basically it was never a good decision to put in a deck alone.

You either buff it(usually via sorcerer’s gambit reward) or do some exodia combo that involves playing it infinite times in the same turn.

And even those decks weren’t really that good at anything other than annoy people.

For the record: even the devs knew it was bad design when they released it. Iksar confirmed in one of his AMAs that it was rejected for being too strong under the name flame snap, back when it dealt only 1 damage.

I said 3 mana deal 3. That’s a reasonable enough card (clears pretty much every 1-2 drop and aggressive 3 drops), it’s not good, but it’s literally just in your deck constantly getting better, and back then Mage had a lot of card draw.

2 mana deal 3 is optimal. 2 mana deal 3 then go infinite is not a reasonable card.

Runed Orb was not bad… it was a discover effect attached to a arcane shot. It was worth at least 2 mana. Probably 3.

For mage it never really gonna be.

This is the point.

The same way druid is designed with ramo mage is designed with ofensive spells that go above average.

Take that of the design and the class just don’t work.
Even the decks based on randoness count with it to some degree.

And for your rune orb example.

It existed the same time incanters flow existed. Basically they created a entire set of incredible bad mage spells for you to discount and buff.

Rendering the class very weak once those decks were nerf.

Like it’s good enough. You use it if you want the infinite aspect of the card for control match ups and it’s not god awful like a 2 mana deal 2 is which doesn’t even clear a 2 drop with 3 health.

I dunno what your point is with runed orb, runed orb was run in I believe just about every mage deck for as long as it was in standard? Am I wrong?

I wouldn’t say every Mage deck, but it was hella strong and saw tons of play.

A card that costs 2 and replace itself on hand is something like a one time Hero Power. An HP that deals 2 to any target is obviously very strong, and when on top of that you can choose the best card for the situation… w

Well, I cant get how anyone thinks Runed Orb was weak.

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'cuz card value is not an immediately obvious metric when evaluating a card. I think based on some of the recent balance/design decisions over the past 2 years or so a lot of the development team maybe doesn’t get it either.