I’d also like to say…I WANT to believe the game is rigged. I WANT someone to prove the game is rigged. I’ve said this time and time again.
I would be the first to jump for joy (after being angry) and watch Blizzard crumble. I would LOVE to see that chaos unfold. I want to expose manipulative and bad companies from doing bad things.
This is why I beg for someone to please produce the evidence that is demonstrable to prove it’s happening. I’m not asking to be some condescending person, I’m asking because I want to see Blizzard confronted with the evidence.
But just because I WANT it to be true does not make me believe it is true. I don’t believe in ANYTHING simply because I want to and it makes me feel good. I refuse to do that.
On this note and let’s just pretend for a second that the game being “rigged” is a misnomer.
I am saying this because I don’t think people like you and I are that far apart.
What if, the actual rules of the matchmaker were unclear because they were unwritten. There is no actual black and white definition, including the full scope of the matchmaker, thus none of us actually know what the matchmaker is. What if, the algorithm that is the matchmaker is a very complex system and has lots of variable and all we the public know is a generic overview?
Do you think this is possible?
Do you believe it matters?
That’s where you’re stock… in very general terms there are people who don’t know how, or don’t want to do the mental work, who jump to from possiblity to possibility, and in their minds these small things add up instead of multiplying down, and quickly add up to conclusions. And then these conclusions lead to new possibilities and new conclusions.
Then we have pizza gate, whatever else qanon serves up, bush blowing up WTCs, Martin Bryant as a Patsy for gun law reform, and I won’t say every major religion because I don’t want to offend.
They may see it as intuition, gut feel, faith, common sense… etc. But really it’s just wanting their intuition to be right and not knowing how or not wanting to try and falsify their own conclusions as they think things through.
Again this just sounds like you have a conclusion you want to run to.
The question you should be asking, is out of the various descriptions of how the matchmaking system works, which one fits the data* best?
*Data means the best data publically available, which is probably hsreplay data, as it is collected in a consistent way and roughly independently of the people try to prove theories.
Yes, it’s possible. In fact, I don’t know of any single game that uses matchmaking that has some “rulebook” of how it works 100%. No one is going to give out the code publicly. It’s sort of like asking for the code. You won’t find a rulebook on matchmaking anywhere that I know of. All you have is a basic concept of how it works, with more knowledge if they tell you they use ELO or MMR as we know a great deal how those work.
It doesn’t really matter if they tell us or not. What really matters is what the data shows. If they didn’t tell us, but the data showed something weird like “heeeeeeey…how come 90% of shaman players are matched against Priest players when Priests are only 15% of the meta?” it would be very questionable. They wouldn’t have to respond. But, a claim can then be made like “We think Shaman is being matched against Priest 90% of the time and here’s how you can test it”. The entire gaming community starts doing that test to demonstrate it and bam, you catch them in a lie.
Matches are fixed dont mean u cant win them if your openent makes mistake but its like iv been saying for a long time.
I have developed match makers. Any game with a match maker is rigged/fixed to make you loose. Is it a 100% chance you will loose? No.
Your oponent can make mistakes. You can win then.
But people are delusional if they think this game is not rigged/fixed to try to make you loose.
Any game with a matchmaker is this way.
Its more grind than skill tp hit high legend any more because of how solitare this game has become because of the power creap and introduction of such powerfull cards.
Blizzard does scan for card win rates yoyr delusional if you think otherwise. They scan for card x vs card z played win rate as well.
They have to. This i part of how they balance and nerf things. Card played win rates is incorperated into the match maker in my opinion. I have no proof but. When deving the match maker for the shooter we used player win rates with x weapon and changed spawn rates for x weapon.
If my small indy game is doing this a company with far more money is 10000% doing something in the same ball park. It would be asinie not 2.
I don’t disbelieve that corporations do bad things (I’ve seen it first hand).
That’s not a starting point when trying to work out if something is wrong. It’s an explanation for motive when you have worked out something is wrong.
I have a motive for killing every one of my relatives, and stealing everything from my neighbours houses (I have their keys). The motive is financial gain.
Humans have been shown to be very interested in financial gain.
Any or all? Sure, it’s very likely some corporations do that…they are all about the money. But I’m not convinced of which ones are doing it until I have evidence that is convincing enough to make said claim.
Exactly. You don’t start with a premise and then find evidence to support it. You see evidence and THEN form a premise and then attempt to find evidence to falsify your belief.
Im gonna be honest i was in the same state you were in a few years back.
Had to be in a top possition in a game to help prove my self worth.
I understand seeing proof that a game that made you feel like you had value, finding out that value is all for nothing cause bots are holding some of the top positions and match makes are desgned to make you loose can be mind blowing.
I hope you learn self love and relise your worth more than a rank in a rigged video game.
Gonna add this the rigging some people are going on about does not exsist but there is fixes in matches thats how a mmr system works.
Will the rigging be easily noticeable ? I doubt that.
Hearthstone is somewhat like a casino. They do not play 100% fair. They use statistics to keep their desired win rate while also makes players keep playing, spending more money.
Do you also believe that casinos is not rigged ? If so, find some truth reveal on YouTube.
Rigging in Hearthstone IMHO is not that obvious like win streak or lose streak. It is like the match making system is trying to keep players win rate (in high rank when skill matters) around 48-50% (my guess, it maybe is 49.5%-50% also), which is unnatural.
Will everyone be able to notice the difference between 49% and 50% ? No. Will this be repeatable easily ? No. However, someone like me and the others can notice it, or maybe we are just biased and imagine things in our own heads. We will never know as we are discussing about probability. We don’t have proof, neither you or I.
Blizzard is not transparent about the fairness of match making. They do not even show the rank of your opponent unless you are in rank Legend. If they show this to us, we may see for fact that they don’t always match us with the players of the same tier. Even having the opponent’s rank shown, people will still argue that they have to match us with stronger opponent because Blizzard wants us to find the match as fast as we could, which is kinda LUL to me.
By the way, do you believe in God ? I think no too, right ?
We get claims of “just play the game and you will see the rigging” All. The. Time!
Now you are stating that it the rigging is so discreet that it cant be easily detected, yet it still exists?!? If you cant tell that its happening, with confidence, then the odds are ITS NOT HAPPENING!
Firstly, lets not go into religion. That has no relevance on the discussion of rigging, and is not a discussion to be had on these forums discussing a CARD GAME, not beliefs.
Secondly, I bet you do believe in the myth of god. You have no evidence of its existence, but you believe its there nonetheless. Just like you have no evidence of HS being rigged, but believe it nonetheless!
Sure. You are 100% correct. What we are discussing now is about speculation and probability. No one knows the truth as facts are never shown.
Let’s talk about motivation then. Do you believe that Blizzard, with all data in hands, not want to cause or create “any” desireable result ? Do they want you to buy card packs ? Do they want as much money as they could to maximize their profit ?
Or they worship honesty and fairness. The company is consisted of pure-hearted staffs and they will not do anything shady at all.
Which one is more likely ?
By the way, I do not believe in God, but I do believe in business model, agenda, objective, profit, AI, data analysis, examples (from casinos), greed, and of course my observation. These are reasons why I believe match making in Hearthstone is rigged.
It’s an unfalsiable claim. Anyone can be motivated to do anything. Do you leave your house? How do you know your neighbour isn’t waiting to snipe you down?
What people are trying to evaluate is data. Nobody is doubting Blizzard’s greed, but no one is trying to evaluate the world by that either. To assume rigging data is needed.
