Fair enough. But if you think it’s rigged, what solid evidence leads you to that conclusion?
To me, this is like the “Bigfoot is real” argument. People think it exists because they think they see something, and they want to count that as strong enough evidence to believe it’s true, and then ask others to prove Bigfoot isn’t real. Doesn’t make any sense to think that way.
I’ll believe Bigfoot is real when someone captures a Bigfoot and the DNA test comes back that it’s a new species of X we didn’t know about. Until then, taking the position of “I still think it exists because [insert bad evidence] seems silly and illogical to me”.
Likewise, I’ll believe rigging is real when someone produces demonstrable evidence that people can reproduce in game. That’s literally never happened once.
The only way to prove it is that Blizzard reveal this algorithm or at least has another trusted party to verify it.
For us, we have no way to do so.
I see that you do not believe in Big Foot as you never see its trail. How about alien ? Do you believe that there is at least one planet in the universe that have a life form ? You must say no to this question too if you want to justify your logic about the relation beween belief and scientific evidence.
This isn’t true. If such an algorithm exists as people state, you would be able to see it in game. For example, the claim that if you are on a 7 win streak, you will be matched up with your counter deck. That’s easy to test. Lots of rigging is easy to prove, but no one has done so which only supports the case that it’s not rigged in that way.
No, I don’t believe an alien exists because I do not currently have evidence and proof that they do. However, I believe there is a very strong possibility that they are likely based on math. It’s extremely similar to how science works with black holes before they discovered. Based on science and math, we believed the strong possibility that they should exist, but since there was no proof we couldn’t adopt the belief that it does, in fact, exist. Thus, we did the science to seek them out and then proved their existence. Same thing with aliens.
Yes, I apply the logic of scientific evidence to just about everything I actively believe in. That’s how it works, that’s why I’m consistent in all my beliefs.
Thus, I do not believe the game is rigged. Is it possible? Sure. Is there proof that it exists? No.
I suspend all my belief until evidence shows that my belief is justified.
Saying blizzard is rigged is the same as saying Elon Musk is an alien. It’s a specific target and can be falsified. There is no proof that I have seen about Elon Musk other than the fact that he sounds, acts, and looks weird.
Asking me if I believe in aliens is the same as asking me do I think companies (not any specific one) rig games, to which I would reply, certainly I believe this happens.
I firmly believe there is life elsewhere in the universe because of math - the odds that we are all that is out there is so astonishingly small. I also believe that companies rig thing, but I won’t believe a specific company does it without evidence of the actions.
Do you have solid evidence for everything you believe to be true?
There is nothing you can now with 100% certainty other then maths inside your head or things likt that.
Everyone excepts this uncertainty,there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it. It just comes down to how much uncertainty someone is willing to accept.
For me the certainty comes from the predictable paterns that i have seen in this game over and over. For you the certainty comes from a blizzard statement,even though the statement itself leaves room for interpretation.
No, there isn’t. I don’t claim to know anything 100%. Anything can be proven false as it could be plausible I’m not living in reality, but instead some sim. However, based on the perceived reality I have, I can have a 99.99% confidence in things, some more than others, but never 100% knowledge.
If there’s anything I’ve learned in life, it’s that humans are flawed and in that flaw filled mind is a mind that purposefully tries to create patterns when there are none.
Not at all, not even close. In fact, I could completely disregard the blizzard statement ENTIRELY. Not believing in rigging has absolutely nothing to do with any Blizzard statement at all, as I believe they are fully capable of lying. My non-belief in a rigged system comes directly from the lack of demonstrable and reliable evidence of said rigged system existing in the form that rigged players claim. I don’t believe the rigged claims to be true because not a single person has shown reliable proof that can make me confident enough to believe the claim is true. In fact, all the data I’ve seen shows the opposite to be true.
I will rephrase this slightly with “intelligent life” as life itself is a rather low barrier.
We dont know how small these odds are. We asume they are small,based on a very long string of assumptions. But the real odds we have no clue about at all,we dont know if all our asumptions are correct. Many of the asumptions are a 100% guess,they could be off by way more then a factor 100.
But because the universe is so large,a long string of very low-odds events seem to “proof” that there must be life somewhere else as well.
So your proof for something is the lack of proof for the opposite?
I can understand if based on this you would come to the conclusion that you dont know. But you seem to go further then that,the lack of proof for the opposite leads you to the conclusion that the game isnt rigged.
I dont think this is what you mean,which is why i said:your proof comes from blizzard statements.
The lack of proof for the opposite can never ever be proof for something. And i think that is something we both agree on.
If you want to know if the game is rigged it is simple. Ask for the written parameters of the matchmaker. Black and white written rules that explain exactly how the matchmaker works including all ifs, ands, buts and exceptions.
Spoiler alert: There isn’t one.
A dev did a Q and A that outlined the basics but did not encompass the actual rules in it’s entirety, such as “if this happens then…”
Translation: those who claim to be about “reason and logic” and are claiming moral high ground because of what Blizz has said don’t actually know or understand what it is Blizz has said. In other words, they are completely full of BS. Period.
No, this is where you are confused. What you just stated is a common misconception in logic.
I do not claim to have proof that rigging doesn’t happen. I am making zero claims.
The claim being made is that rigging DOES happen.
I view the evidence for that and say “Sorry, this is not convincing enough for me”
That DOES NOT MEAN that I am making a statement stating that rigging does NOT exist. That’s the logical problem you just asserted - that me not agreeing the game is rigged is not some proof for me that the game isn’t rigged.
Consider this analogy that I use in these scenarios.
Imagine you flip a penny and hide the result in your hand. You don’t know the result and I don’t know the result.
Tails is “game is rigged”, Heads is “game is not rigged”
You make the claim the game is rigged, or the penny is Tails, and I say ok show me your evidence. And your evidence is “X, Y, Z”. I look at X Y and Z and I don’t think that’s good enough to convince me that you know the penny is Tails.
Thus, I reject your assertion that it landed on Tails.
My rejection of your assertion does not mean I’m asserting the penny landed on Heads.
I’m simply telling you that your assertion it is Tails is not convincing and looks like really bad evidence.
My conclusion is then “I don’t currently have a belief that the Penny is on Tails”
That’s it.
I don’t currently have a belief that the game is rigged and I reject your claim that the game is rigged because the evidence you’ve provided is really, really bad and not demonstrable to produce evidence that it’s rigged.
I thought you held the position that the game wasnt rigged but your position is that we dont know and you dont make any claims. You dont believe the game is rigged crowd because they havent provided evidence,which is a fair take.
I did asume this did imply you believed the game wasnt rigged but that was a mistake from my side,it doesnt actually imply this.
I like the guy don’t get me wrong but he has always been hard stanced against rigging. Don’t let his “let up” or “softening” fool you. He has been adamant against rigging and absolutely 100% against it. He thinks he is far smarter than he is.
You can go look at the evidence. The evidence that bots get to legend are the botters themselves telling you, the botters themselves posting screenshots of them at high legend with their botting program open, botters talking to each other on their bot forum about sharing their configurations on what they use and what ranks they get, and the testimony of others experiencing the botters themselves.
Then there is Scrotie, who says botters don’t get to legend because “my math says it’s impossible”
So you can pick who you want to believe.
I’ve seen enough evidence to convince me it exists.
As far as rigging, I have never seen any evidence that convinces me there is rigging, and the evidence I’ve seen that rigging doesn’t exist is more convincing, but not convincing enough to make me say “Rigging doesn’t exist at all”. But if I was forced with gun to the head to make a choice, I’d lean towards “Rigging doesn’t exist”. Very similar to Bigfoot arguments.
No, I follow reason and sound logic and rationality. I very much follow the way science works. Sounds more like you want me to fit some narrative instead.
That won’t prove anything because they could just change the algorithm and that’s exactly what all the same old posts would say. You just replace “the game is rigged” with “the game is now rigged”
And it’s because of people who have faith instead of scepticism.
I’m against the assertion that it exists because no one yet has ever provided any solid evidence of it existing. This is how rational and logical thinking work.
100% you got it. I have no way of knowing if the game isn’t rigged because I’ve never seen evidence that the game isn’t rigged that is enough to convince me to make that assertion. Just like Bigfoot. I would never claim that Bigfoot doesn’t exist, I can only claim I don’t know. I don’t know how someone can prove Bigfoot doesn’t exist, which is why I’d never ask someone to prove Bigfoot doesn’t exist…it’s practically impossible to do so.
I think you are very smart. I really like you. Don’t take my hard challenges as a dislike. You are charismatic and a cool dude. I like you a lot. (no homer, don’t take that wrong man)
I just feel like you are so stock. You take the easy stance and go the easy route despite IMO that you probably know better.
Just my opinion man. I know I come off as an aggressive, I don’t…jerk.
But I do listen (read) and I am not stuck in any decision or mindset. I am a “cup is half full” and always looking to add more.
Now that you called me smart, let me show my ignorance. What do you mean “you are so stock?” I don’t know what stock means in this context. I don’t feel like I’m taking any easy stance at all here. I’m taking the rational one. I don’t know of any real scientists who would claim “Bigfoot does not exist”. That’s not the easy stance. That’s the rational and logical one. That’s the epistemologically sound position. I’m all about epistemology.
I come off as more aggressive online than I do in person, but I think that’s normal (thanks internet). I don’t consider you a jerk at all.
I’m a cup half empty person myself. Someone took some of my drink and I’m mad about it! lol
.